What constitutes a clash? by Denis Hurley

Posted by John Devlin

by Denis Hurley

Clearly, given the subject matter of my previous two contributions on here, the issue of change kits is one that interests me quite a lot.

There has been plenty of discussion about clashes in the various comment threads on the site and so, after more pestering, John has allowed more once more to spout my ill-informed and uneducated opinions.

It’s a tough task I have decided to tackle – namely what constitutes a clash, and the various ways clashes are dealt with, while leaving aside the fact that many teams wear away and third kits simply to sell more shirts.

We can all agree that, fairly obviously, if two teams have the same, or very similarly, coloured shirts, a change is required, but what of ‘partial clashes’, where is the tipping point? If opposing sides have the same colour sleeves, is it allowed? To what extent do stripes cause clashes with solid shirts? And do shorts and socks contribute to a clash?

We shall try to answer these questions, but the real objective is to get a debate going, one which some people will no doubt want to partake in with different views to mine!

For our money, the issue could be dealt with far more efficiently, often it seems as if the person deciding on changes or lack thereof is reading descriptions of the kits rather actually looking at them.

For a prime example of this, look at another code of football, rugby union, where Scotland or Italy always change when they clash in the Six Nations, despite there being no confusion between bright blue and navy blue. The other side of that coin is that changes in England-Argentina rugby games have only become common in recent times due to England wanting to sell alternative jerseys.

While things are not that bad in football, there are some quibbles, though obviously it is ultimately the decision of a referee and each one is different, for example Howard Webb, a World Cup final referee, allowed this game http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/jermaine-jenas-of-tottenham-holds-off-steven-reid-of-news-photo/57002770 to go ahead in 2006 when Blackburn failed to bring another kit to White Hart Lane.

The far end of the spectrum in terms of avoiding clashes is seen at World Cups and European Championships, where an avoidance of dark-v-dark or light-v-light is often desired, as well the minimisation of the same colour appearing prominently on both sides’ kits.

Even so, there is some inconsistency with this approach. For example, in 2002 England-Brazil was deemed to be a clash but Brazil-Germany in the final was not. More recently, Italy and Spain were both allowed to wear home kits in their two Euro 2012 ties, while Croatia changed from a predominantly white kit to all-blue against the Republic of Ireland, when Ireland in all-green and Croatia in their usual kit would surely have worked better if a contrast was being sought.

The major tournaments do tend to seek to sort what I have termed the ‘overall clash’, basically where the kit is viewed as one whole rather than three distinct parts. An example of this happening is when Everton would play Leeds and Leeds would wear blue shorts, when staying in all-white would have been a better solution rather than introducing a colour worn by their opponents.

I feel that the shorts and socks can have a big effect, and would cite last Saturday’s game between Newcastle and Tottenham at St James’ Park. Spurs have an all-white home this season and an all-navy away, with a third (“to be advised”, according to the Premier League Handbook) set to be black and grey, so a satisfactory solution was always going to be difficult.

spurs-newcastle

If Newcastle’s home still had a mainly black back, I would have felt that all-white was fine, but as it is the back is white, so Spurs in navy-white-white had potential for confusion. It brought to mind, but was not as bad as, Newcastle’s cup game with Tranmere Rovers in 2000, when the Toon’s changing of shorts made a bad situation worse (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/andy-parkinson-of-tranmere-rovers-challenges-aaron-hughes-news-photo/1521399).

Striped shirts against a team with the colour of one of the stripes is allowable in my book, once the short and socks do enough to differentiate. Watching Celtic in their narrow hoops recently made think that they could play a team in all-green without a change, but if they had green shorts or socks then this would not be possible.

The overall clash is far more important than comparing teams’s shirts, shorts and socks separately, in my view. I would allow Arsenal and Barcelona to play each other this season in their home kits, and while I would stop short of letting Liverpool and Ajax do the same, if Ajax’s stripe was narrower it could work.

barca-arsenal

On the subject of sleeves, Arsenal have often changed against sides in white (though only once against Spurs), and some referees, particularly in the League of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Buttimer), have a problem with it. It was therefore very surprising when, in the 2010-11 season, Arsenal wore yellow away to Blackpool despite having theoretically retained the previous season’s navy away a third choice.

On stripes v stripes, I would retain the same view regarding the shorts and socks, for example Stoke in white shorts and socks against Newcastle in black shorts and socks is manageable, but the Tyne-Wear Derby is somewhat more problematic.

For a time the away side would change but to the best of my knowledge this has not happened since the early 90s, though last year Newcastle apparently wanted to wear their orange away (http://www.wsc.co.uk/weekly-howl/1004-2011/7641-weekly-howl-19-08-11), not considering how this would impact against a side in red and white.

And maybe that’s the bottom line, that there is not enough thought put into the whole thing. At least it gives us kit aficionados something to talk about.

www.prideinthejersey.com


1,103 Responses to “What constitutes a clash? by Denis Hurley”

  1. True Colours Football Kits » What constitutes a clash? by Denis Hurley Says:

    […] You can read it by clicking here […]

  2. EricGeneric Says:

    Funnily enough, Denis, I was thinking about Barcelona and Arsenal only the other day – as they always seem to meet in the Champions League! I agree with you, I think this season there wouldn’t need to be a change. I’m not sure though why Liverpool wearing red would be a problem though?

    By the way, what away kit did Blackburn have that season? When they wore their home kit at White Hart Lane.

    As you know Denis, I don’t really go along with the overall clash thing. In the example given, if I were a referee, I would want Everton in blue-white-blue, and Leeds in white-blue-white – rather than both teams having the same colour shorts. I’m not saying shorts clashes are a big problem, but I think every part of each team’s kit should be different. I don’t like it when a goalkeeper wears the same colour shorts and socks as the opposition outfield players. To be honest, I think that probably just comes from growing up watching a Football League team in 1990’s – when shorts clashes hardly ever occured.

    Interesting article, Denis.

  3. EricGeneric Says:

    On the subject of Sunderland versus Newcastle, I know it was only a one-off, but Newcastle wore their away kit at the Stadium of Light in 07/08.

    http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/alan-smith-of-newcastle-united-is-challenged-by-anthony-news-photo/77837847

  4. Denis Hurley Says:

    I meant if Liverpool were playing Ajax Eric, sorry for the confusion!

  5. EricGeneric Says:

    Ah, I see Denis – no worries.

    I bet if Arsenal and Barcelona did play each other in the Champions League this season, both away teams would switch to an away kit, just because they always have, and that is still the mindset.

    You do find that sometimes. Like Man United wearing a change kit at Southampton in the FA Cup a couple of years ago, even though Southampton had that white kit that season.

  6. Martinos Says:

    What I realised in recent years, particularly in the Premier League, is that black and white are colours that do not ‘clash’ with regards to shorts, sleeves or to striped shirts. For example, Arsenal would only change their socks away against Swansea or Sunderland play with their home strip away to Spurs (although they changed against Swansea this year).
    When those kind of clashes regards other colours then a change is needed e.g. Man City will have to change to their third black and grey shirt away to West Ham and Aston Villa due to the clash of sky blue sleeves with sky blue shirts and claret shirts with City’s away maroon shirts.
    What I’m curious about this year, though, is what will Stoke wear away at Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton and Man Utd as both their strips have red stripes!

  7. Denis Hurley Says:

    I don’t doubt for a minute that they’d change Eric, and United at Southampton is a great example. On a related note though, they must have done their homework this year as they wore white last week whereas they normally wouldn’t (with 1997-98 a notable exception)

  8. Martyn Ping Says:

    Denis,
    Very thought provoking – There have been a lot of comments on these pages recently regarding this issue. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it was financially motivated – very little thought seems to go into strip selection in the UK, other than cash through the tills. I have always found it strange over the years how red teams deal with playing Crystal Palace, especially if they have a blue away (similar situation to Barcelona/Arsenal). As an afficianado of German football, the Bundesliga seem to be much more strict in these situations, and the kit suppliers/clubs pick logical solutions in the first place, making the official’s jobs easier. For example, Bayern Munchen usually go back to a white away, alternated with a dark third, meaning that playing a team with large areas of red AND white never presents a problem – just wear the third. Sadly, in England since the advent of the Premier League, multiple strips have reached epidemic proportions, with seemingly NO thought going into their creation, and the FA seem oblivious – a half baked attempt at curtailing it a few years ago with the ‘expiry date’ idea seems to have been brushed aside. Has anyone noticed how ALL strips these days seem to be marketed as single seasons, even if the intention IS to carry them over? I appreciate the selling of replica strips is an important side of football these days, but if Bayern can turn a profit twelve years in a row despite (mostly) alternating home and away shirts on a two year cycle, isn’t it about time they returned to the idea in England?

  9. EricGeneric Says:

    I don’t think are that bad, Martyn.

    The “financial motivation” thing doesn’t really wash with me. Sure, kits are a big money maker for a lot of clubs, and obviously a lot of thought is put into what the fans would want to buy, but would, for example, the purple Liverpool third kit have sold less if it was white, or yellow? I don’t think so. I think it’s just poor planning. And, it doesn’t happen too often really, when you think about it.

    I think away kits are marketed as a single season kit, simply because advertising the new Arsenal away kit, as the Arsenal 12/13 away/13/14 third kit – just doesn’t really come across well. And, let’s be honest, how often is the carried over away kit going to be used the following season? Maybe once in an emergency? You’re probably opening up the club to criticism from the those silly fans who would be all “I thought this kit was going to be used for two seasons, but we’ve only worn it once this season!”

    Where as if you just advertise it as a single season away kit, and quietly carry it over the following season as an emergency third kit, that fan who bought the kit might see it as a bit of a bonus when he sees it being worn in that one match where both the home and away kits couldn’t be used. Which maybe creates a little bit of goodwill.

    Personally, I think people are little obsessed with the two-year cycle. It’s gone and it’s not coming back. I’m fine with it really. I’m not against two-year cycles though. I like what Arsenal have done recently. They had two home kits which last for the single season, and this season they have a new home kit which will last for two seasons. Teams shouldn’t be releasing three new kits each and every season though, like Chelsea do. It is unnecessary, and just leads to barely used forgotten third kits. Like this season, Chelsea should have just released the new home kit, and new away, and had last seasons black away kit as the new third kit, rather than releasing a new black kit.

    Anyway, we have kind of already had this discussion elsewhere, we should get back to clashes!

  10. ciaran Says:

    Denis Why were Ireland wearing their away kit in kazakhstan last night.I wouldnt have thought that there would have been that big a similarity in kits between green and blue.

  11. Jay29ers Says:

    This article had to be written. I agree with all of it. Thank you, Denis.

    Eric, the purple Liverpool kit exists – and the yellow doesn’t – because Warrior concluded that it would sell (and the yellow wouldn’t). There’s a very interesting interview that a marketing guy (obviously ex adidas/Umbro) from Warrior did with the We Are The Redmen thing where he admits as much.

    Of course we know a yellow Liverpool change kit would have been better than the purple but apparently yellow isn’t a great colour for sales – which may be another reason why United don’t use it anymore. The sad fact is that, whilst we’re passionate about football kits, our opinions don’t necessarily reflect the sales.

  12. EricGeneric Says:

    Fair enough, Jay.

    Yellow is a very “in your face” colour, so why not white? But, fair enough, if they have admitted they choose purple because they thought it would sell well.

    It still doesn’t get a way from the point I made, this isn’t happening all over the place. Yes, this season we have Liverpool and Tottenham, and you have to also take into consideration that they are two new companies. I just don’t think it’s quite the problem some make it out to be. Like the majority of teams are just having kits that all look similar because they sell well, and are causing clashes all over the place. It doesn’t happen very often.

  13. Denis Hurley Says:

    @Ciarán – Not really sure, just something that seems to happen a lot, e.g. against Italy and France in WC10 qualifiers, Switzerland in EC04 and WC06 quals. Probably trying to generate sales

  14. John Devlin Says:

    Great article Denis! Jay, your comments about the selling of a Liverpool yellow kit summarises what I believe is a major flaw developing in the kit world – namely, the requirements of replicas determining what designs are produced. Obviously this is why black away shirts are so widespread as well, but this ‘tail wagging the dog’ scenario could well end in tears.

  15. Martyn Ping Says:

    I remember when I started following football in the early 90’s, the two year kit cycle was an exciting way to start the new season – knowing that every team would be using at least one new kit. Third kits were not that common through the league then – now everyone has them. The point I was trying to make was one discussed on this page before – namely that kit sales seem to be driven by marketing rather than neccessity. Whichever marketing bod said yellow kits don’t sell that well obviously forgot that the Brazil home is one of the biggest selling kits in the world historically. The lifespan thing was just an observation…Two year spans for home/ away kits and one season thirds just seems the way forward for me. I know fans sometime moan about existing colour schemes being re-hashed, and apologies for going back to the Bundesliga again, but since the mid 00’s, Bayern’s white kits have been VERY different – white with blue and red swirls/ white with silver hoops and navy trim/ white with flourescent orangey red, meaning they are different enough to be considered new, despite the same base colour. And what is wrong with that? With regards to Arsenal, Nike are just worried that if they reverted to the traditional away colours of yellow & blue every season or every other season, they wouldn’t NEED a third kit…If that’s not commerce driving selection I don’t know what is.

  16. EricGeneric Says:

    To be fair, Martyn, regarding Arsenal and Nike with third kits, Arsenal very rarely release a new third kit.

    It’s nearly always the away kit from the previous season, being carried over. This season see the yellow kit being used as a third kit for the second season, and it was the away kit the season before that.

    I think the only times they have released a new third kit since 2000, was the red and navy blue hoops in 07/08, and the white and grey kit in 09/10.

  17. ciaran Says:

    #13 – I suppose there arent that many internationa teams that wear Green in Europe so as you say its a good way to generate sales.We came close to losing another match in it as well!

    Good article.Its always difficult for the big teams to get it right wrt kit selection.Especially for a team in red like man uts/arsenal/liverpool because the adidas/nike/pumas will want to make shirts with 1/2 different colours thrown in.even more so in europe if they qualify.

    Speaking as a leicester fan its not that big an issue I believe in the championship even though blue is the dominant colour here.No bad colour clashes probably due to striaghtforward blue home designs.

    Whats with the early posting.You heading up to the All ireland final today?

  18. Denis Hurley Says:

    No, up early for golf!

  19. Jay29ers Says:

    I think we’re being a bit kind to Warrior and Under Armour if we let them off because they’re new (to football). Surely this is even more reason to tread carefully and ensure the kits are fully functional as well as saleable?

    The idea that yellow kits don’t sell well is actually more specific to Liverpool rather than necessarily a general rule (I infer about United) and I think stems particularly from the ’04 and ’06 Aways not selling – which could be attributed to Carlsberg ruining the latter by insisting their logo was in green and the former being Godawful.

  20. Denis Hurley Says:

    Eric – this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL5dJsWeqkI is the 1993 All-Ireland football semi-final between Cork and Derry.

    The teams have different coloured shorts but, leaving aside the fact that a complete change should have been ordered, don’t they contribute to the overall clash?

    If they swapped shorts colours it’d have been (just about) acceptable, in my view

  21. David Morrissey Says:

    its a bit of a minefield this whole area. to really conquer it every team would need to know their opposition well in advance which is not possible with the Champions league/Europa league draws in august and the cup fixtures a short time before the actual fixture takes place. Arsenal v Lens in the 2000 Uefa cup is another good example. Owing to the navy shorts and socks and the trim on the shirts you could tell the teams apart at least on TV but apparently Arsenal were tempted to change. that same year Arsenal made a balls up vs Sparta Prague trying to market their navy blue shirt which goes to show kits are being used out of marketing now rather than necessity.

  22. David Morrissey Says:

    if teams were to use common sense and use one off kits in the event of a clash then i feel the authorities should give them the flexibility to do so. teams seem to be limited by the fact the league expects a declaration of their uniforms before the start of the campaign. That said clubs dont make it easy on themselves. Spurs knew a long time ago that they would be playing Newcastle, Fulham and Swansea so therefore they should have had the cop on and instructed under armour to design them an away kit that totally contrasts those 3.

  23. Denis Hurley Says:

    The problem with common sense is that it’s not all that common unfortunately!

  24. Mark Jessop Says:

    The way I see it is that there are two types of colour clash, paper and real. It may be that when reading descriptions of the kits of two opposing teams it appears that there will be a clash whereas if you see the kits side by side this is not necessarily the case. The opposite scenario is also true. This is why I keep harping on about the need for the leagues to emply a kit coordinator. Someone who has access to the actual kits and can make an informed decision on behalf of both teams.

    On an unrelated matter Denisenis given that you appear to be a golfer have you noticed that ‘kits’ seem to be appearing in golf, for example prior to the majors, Adidas will publish the outfits to be worn on each of the four days by its prominent players such as Sergio and Dustin Johnson. Puma similarly do this for Rickie Fowler.

  25. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, that has become a big thing in recent years Mark, so much so that the golfers have little or no say in what they wear, the stuff is just delivered to them with instructions on what to wear each day. Of course, they can look silly when the four outifts are revealed in advance and they don’t make the cut!

    Sometimes, I worry that I spend too much time worrying about my outfits than my driving, of course.

  26. Denis Hurley Says:

    On and spot-on about paper and real clashes!

  27. Martyn Ping Says:

    I don’t think this matter will be resolved quickly, but a kit co-ordinator would be a step in the right direction. I’ve never said on these pages that kits SHOULD stick to rigid designs, I like it when new things are tried, just honouring traditional home and/or away (where a club is well known for a particular colour scheme away from home – eg. Arsenal yellow & blue or Man City red & black) colours would be nice. I accept that two year lifespans may be coming to an end, but it would be nice if clubs/suppliers DID honour it. Maybe I’m hoping for a lot for a multi billion Euro/Pound/Dollar industry to put the fans first for a change!

  28. EricGeneric Says:

    A kit co-ordrinator is a great idea.

    I bet any one of us would sell their Granny for that job!

  29. Denis Hurley Says:

    Any thoughts re number 20, Eric?!

  30. EricGeneric Says:

    We are just going to have to agree to disagree about the overall clash, Denis.

  31. Denis Hurley Says:

    So you think the teams having opposite-coloured shorts didn’t contribute at all?!

  32. EricGeneric Says:

    I thought it was a clash, because of the red sleeves and thick red band around the middle of the shirt of the team in white.

  33. EricGeneric Says:

    To be honest, the shirts were such a clash, the shorts were practically irrelevant!

  34. Jay29ers Says:

    Ok, going back to John’s point (14), I have to admit that I’m totally for kits being produced based around what will sell well, simply because the purpose of replica sales is to fund the club in its pursuit of success. The starting point should be the best (colour of) “change” kit in terms of saleability (putting Cardiff to one side for the sake of brevity) and then from that the designers should work backwards until they find a season wardrobe that covers all bases – obviously the step that Warrior and Under Armour missed out.

    Yes, interchangeable shorts and socks being deployed would probably help, but if this goes against what will sell best (a big “if”) then it shouldn’t be so difficult to get three entirely independent kits that work well enough to avoid a home side, like Hearts, having to change to accommodate. If we take the Liverpool Third, it already has white sleeves and white socks so if the body was in fact white with a nightshade sash, perhaps bordered in orange, then it would have done the trick – surely even Warrior could have come up with some white change shorts.

    The answer is to threaten clubs with fines if their lack of an acceptable kit forces a home side to change. Obviously in Europe the kits have to be declared beforehand but, and I’m sorry to harp on, against Hearts the yellow, orange or green (!) goalkeeper kits would have been fine. No they don’t have the look of outfield versions but if Liverpool were made to wear one of them then they wouldn’t have made the error in the first place.

  35. Denis Hurley Says:

    But Eric, do you not think that all-red v white shirts w/red sleeves and hoop and white shorts would work?

  36. Jay29ers Says:

    Hold on, Denis, did you not say that you considered Liverpool-Ajax to be a clash? I was a little bit surprised by that because I’m not sure I do, but the example you give above contradicts that somewhat.

    But putting that to one side, I agree with the principles of the “overall clash” avoidance method. If two teams have similar colours then you’re much better to minimise the secondary colours on both kits (maximising the other) as much a possible rather than worrying about the shorts being the same colour.

  37. Jay29ers Says:

    …Hence why I think West Brom should wear navy change shorts and socks at home to Spurs (in their full Home kit). Not ideal, not right and proper but neither causing West Brom ti be unrecognisible and, dare I say it, most people wouldn’t even notice they weren’t in the first choice kit.

  38. Jay29ers Says:

    …Amongst all that self-contradiction there’s a point somewhere, I’m sure :-\

  39. Denis Hurley Says:

    I think Ajax’s stripe is too wide for it not to be an issue – it’s wide enough to accommodate a double-digit number so you would have confusion in my view.

    I’m at work now, but I’ll do some artwork tonight to (try to) prove my point – or at least entrench my own views some more!

  40. Denis Hurley Says:

    Oh and I agree with you that WBA in navy shorts and socks would be fine against Spurs’ home

  41. EricGeneric Says:

    Re: 35. Denis.

    To be honest, no. I just think it’s a clash and a change kit should have been used.

  42. Denis Hurley Says:

    First of all, I’m amazed that you consider that a clash based on the jerseys yet have no problems with Spurs wearing navy/white/white at Newcastle.

    In addition, not viewing that Newcastle-Spurs game as causing any issues but requiring a shorts change if Everton played Nottingham Forest (for example) also seems inconsistent.

    Viewing kits as three distinct parts is like those ‘paper clashes’ that Mark described. For me, as the shirts and shorts touch each other, they cannot be seen as separate parts.

    This http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/1820/1993a.jpg is an approximation of the strips in that All-Ireland final (socks omitted as most players wear them down), whereas this http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1038/1993b.jpg is white the shorts colours switched. Sleeve colours do not matter as much in Gaelic football as players are allowed to handle the ball.

    I’d be interested to know what Andrew Rockall thinks of the whole thing, as a referee.

  43. James Telford Says:

    A couple of inconsistencies I’ve noted – these are all from the POV of the officials it seems:

    1. Red and white stripes don’t clash with white shirts but do with red shirts, even when there’s more white on the shirts (plain white backs excepted). My team Exeter had white away shirts from 2010-12 and normally wore this against red teams, but wore their home red and white stripes against white teams, even though the 11-12 edition was predominantly white. There was one exception – I think it was Tranmere – which I assume was ordered by the ref as it was worn against Preston and Franchise. The team seem to have viewed away kits as unlucky until this season, as previously they always wore the home kit wherever possible, whereas the new blue away kit was worn at all yellow Oxford due to its 100% record.

    The daft thing is that white stands out more than any other colour on the football pitch (Middlesbrough’s hoop was originally added for this reason). It makes even less sense when the same rule is applied to blue and white stripes against blue or white teams, as blue stands out less against the pitch.

    2. FIFA’s World Cup rules are that whichever team is at home gets to wear their home kit, or at least the shirt – they may be required to change shorts to provide a full contrast. I can’t work out whether away teams have to change or simply choose to. However a daft case in the World Cup was this:
    2nd round – Uruguay v South Korea – Korea wear their white-blue-white away kit rather than red-white-red home.
    QF: – Uruguay v Ghana – Ghana wear their red and yellow-red-red away rather than their all white home.

    I think FIFA are more obsessed with contrast than light v light or dark v dark given the number of games at the WC which contravened that but still had a clear contrast e.g. Ghana v Oz, South Korea v Greece, even though a light-dark contrast could have been made.

  44. Bert Says:

    With the England v Argentina thing that you mentioned, I can’t really see how England could wear all white or even with navy blue socks against Argentina’s light blue and white hoops and white shorts and socks, so a change strip has to be worn. I do take your point though in recent games at Twickenham against Australia and Wales when change kits were worn.

  45. Denis Hurley Says:

    Bert – I’m lamenting the fact that it’s only recently change kits have been worn when England meet Argentina, I feel they always should have been!

  46. Les Says:

    It disappoints me Jay that you see shirts as only cash generators, from replica sales and chest adverts. A shirt is the principal identfying mark of a club, its visual identity, and the most emotional bond between club and fans. You seem to reduce it to nothing more than pounds and pence value.

  47. EricGeneric Says:

    @James.

    I disagree on the red and white stripes versus red thing. I think it’s much clearer to see a team wear white, against red and white stripes – than red. Obviously, with the exception of plain white backs.

    White isn’t a colour and the red shows up against it clearly. I have never really saw this as a problem. I think red versus red and white stripes is unacceptable.

    I can see why referees see it this way.

  48. Jay29ers Says:

    Les, I might be exaggerating a little. I do think that certain colours should probably be avoided for most teams (that worn by a rival etc) but should the best selling shirt not usually be the most fitting? If a shirt sells well then it means it is popular with the fans, generally speaking. If a shirt is popular with the majority then who are you and I to say that it’s in the wrong colour?

    You know I’m against sponsors which use a logo that looks out of place or conduct themselves in a way which goes against the values of the club, but I have no problem with my club(s) doing the best they can to bring in funds to pay for signings and wages. In fact, if they didn’t then I’d have a problem with that.

    It has to involve compromise. But besides, the thing that bugs me is when a small group with a loud voice says that shirts should or shouldn’t be a particular colour whilst everyone else goes out and buys what is supposedly the wrong coloured shirt. It’s all well and good saying Liverpool should wear yellow away kits because of the Double or whatever – and undoubtedly noble trying to educate younger fans on what makes an acceptable shirt – but if something’s forced into production and then remains on racks in the club shop that’s revenue lost.

    You can take a fan to the Waterside Shopping Centre (Lincoln, apparently) but you can’t make him buy the replica shirt.

  49. Denis Hurley Says:

    Atletico Madrid v Manchester United, 1991: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpvAihTS3qo#t=1m41s

    Whisper it, but I think that Atletico’s blue shorts help to identify the teams

  50. Denis Hurley Says:

    I still have a comment awaiting moderation too btw

  51. Ronan Smith Says:

    The shorts make a huge difference in the Manchester United game. As for the Arsenal Benfica game, a night I remember well and had big expectations, unfortunately an excellent Benfica team had other ideas! Also people will notice it was in an era when the home team changed (you’ll also see a brief clip from the game in Lisbon) unfortunately it was the time that we had THAT away kit!!

  52. Denis Hurley Says:

    Also worn against Austria Vienna, that was the first year of the home team changing as far as I can remember!

    Was gutted that night, and then Isaias turned out to be crap when he went to Benfica. I wonder how different the history of English football would have been if Arsenal had reached the league section

  53. EricGeneric Says:

    You are right, Denis. Athletico’s blue shorts do help identify both teams. Even though it is still a clash, in my opinion.

    Although, I don’t think this really fits in with your overall clash propaganda :P

    I mean, obviously a team wearing blue shorts when there is no other part of each teams kit in blue is going to help.

  54. Pete Says:

    Found this- http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/images/orthochromatic-chart.gif

    using this for the basis of a clash for my pub team’s colours from now on. (if it looks the same in B&W it’s a clash)

  55. Ronan Smith Says:

    ..or ‘Austria Memphis’ as the boards around Highbury listed them (something to do with some sponsorship they had at the time, I believe). I’m afraid it’s one of those “if only” moments that’ll we’ll never know if they’d have made the group stage. They wore maroon that night and we obviously changed from red, Cork and Galway please take note….

  56. Denis Hurley Says:

    But Eric, if that’s a clash then Newcastle-Spurs was a clash!

  57. EricGeneric Says:

    Denis, you’re obsessed! :D

  58. Denis Hurley Says:

    Only obsessed with consistency, Eric :D

    If red/white-blue-red is a clash with red-white-black, then surely white/black-black-black is a clash with navy-white-white?

  59. Jay29ers Says:

    SPOILER ALERT!

    That last post would work as fabulous alternative dialogue for the final scene in Shutter Island, just before Laeddis gets lobotomised.

  60. Andrew Rockall Says:

    Denis was the Newcastle v Tottenham game a ‘Paper Clash’ or a real clash? Cos watching the game I saw no issue but before hand thought it may be a problem.

    United have worn red at West Ham and Aston Villa in the past which everyone will agree usually requires a change. In reality it didn’t cause a problem.

  61. EricGeneric Says:

    Spot on, Andrew – re: Newcastle v Tottenham.

    I too thought it would be a problem beforehand, when in reality I thought it was fine.

  62. Denis Hurley Says:

    Possibly more of a paper clash Andrew, the point I’m making is I don’t know how Eric has no problem with that but then considers Atletico-Man U to be a clash

  63. EricGeneric Says:

    There are two reasons.

    Firstly, the white backs on Newcastle shirts. I think we can both agree that there is a lot more white on the shirt than black. Athletico’s is a standard red and white stripes.

    Secondly, and you’ll probably think this is baloney, but red stands out as the predominant colour. I would have been fine with Man United wearing white. But red is much more noticeable, which is why 99 times out 100, you see white versus red and white stripes, but not red versus red and white stripes.

    The Newcastle v Tottenham was navy blue versus white and black. The white stands out more, as it against navy blue. And there is much more white on the Newcastle shirt than black.

    I think Andrew has nailed it, to be honest. There are paper clashes, and real clashes. I thought Newcastle v Tottenham was going to be a clash until I saw the match. Although, at that time I hadn’t seen the new Newcastle kit, and didn’t know about the large amount of white on the shirt.

  64. Denis Hurley Says:

    Fair enough, Eric

  65. Denis Hurley Says:

    Last thing – I wonder if Southampton will wear white-red-red at the Emirates today

  66. EricGeneric Says:

    Hopefully! :P

  67. Jay29ers Says:

    They wore yellow and blue I assume due to the sleeves clash.

  68. Andrew Rockall Says:

    Spurs have caused a sleeve clash at The Library and The Effiminates every year. I don’t recall a single occasion they have ever changed v Arsenal.

  69. Denis Hurley Says:

    They didn’t cause one in 1965-66, 66-67. 94-95, 95-96, 2008-09 or 2009-10

  70. Jay29ers Says:

    Plus, we know that exceptions are made for local rivalries. Arsenal-Spurs is worth being lenient with, Arsenal-Southampton is not.

  71. Denis Hurley Says:

    Last season, Arsenal wore their home kit away to Swansea and often did so against Leeds too.

  72. ken Says:

    Great article and raises some very good points. The Hearts v Liverpool game in Edinburgh highlighten how pointless Liverpool’s change and 3rd kit are this season. I wondered what Liverpool would wear this weekend away to Sunderland and have to say the red socks with black shirt and shorts worked quite well.

  73. Jon Says:

    On the subject of Barcelona’s kit and clashes with red, I notice in tonight’s Champions League that their opponents Spartak Moscow have turned up at the Nou Camp in their red “Middlesbrough style” kit.

    I think given the shade and quantity of “grenadine red” on Barça’s shirts, it’s more than passable, though you have to question how come Spartak didn’t turn up in their white away strip.

  74. EricGeneric Says:

    Maybe they didn’t want to annoy Barcelona by wearing the same colours as Real Madrid!

    Just flicked over to the match, and yeah, it is fine.

  75. EricGeneric Says:

    Just noticed that Victor Valdes is once again wearing the green third goalkeeper kit.

    You know, I think they may have realised that the blue home goalkeeper kit actually clashes with outfield kit!

  76. George Says:

    Leagues just need to have set styles of kit as in the nba when they have one coloured kit one white kit and one alternate kit.

    Or just have a bunch of people that organise kits for each fixture at a similar time to the announce of the fixture list.

  77. EricGeneric Says:

    I’m really surprised by how many people on this site seem to want standard designs/colours. Usually anything homogenised, even like league standard numbering and lettering is lampooned!

  78. John Devlin Says:

    Found this interesting link about colour clashes that gives scientific reasoning behind ‘single colour’ kits…

    http://neuromancy.southernfriedscience.com/?p=544

  79. Denis Hurley Says:

    Interesting stuff, I’d say the whole study is worth a read, I wonder if they did included blue shirts/white shorts against all-white and compared those results

  80. Steve Halliwell Says:

    A great read but It’s all about money, it is not hard not to clash.

    It is so simple to sort but when “the suits” get involved commonsense goes out of the window.

  81. George Says:

    the kits don’t necessarily have to be a specific sort of design, the teams and the leagues just need to be organised in a way that the league makes sure a team has a good enough difference on a second or third kit that they will never clash wit the home team.

    I’m not sure in the championship they do that considering Blackburn’s Regular home kit along with a dark blue away kit and a white third kit with blue pinstripes.

    Teams should just reverse colours for an away kit and have an extra third kit if they want.

  82. Tony Wright Says:

    i have always had a problem with this (as i play FIFA and PES a lot its a bane of my life) ..so heres a funny story,

    i was playing FIFA 2002, i was playing a season as manchester united and found myself up against sunderland at away

    at the time i didnt have much of a system …..i just changed the kit if the colours were the same in any way shape or form …..even if the colour clash is just on the arms (the arms make up most of the kit) , so at this point it was a no brainer ….red + white vs red = a change

    unfortunatly i knew my away was white and in my eyes that clashed too, i had to find a solution ….i turned to the shorts first but decided that uniteds black away shorts would add to the confusion by clashing with sunderlands black pair,

    i found sunderland had a sky blue away kit, and thus opted for that ..but being a stickler i didnt want to have united play in home at away whilst the home team wore their away …it went against convention in my eyes ..so i opted for the white

    unfortunatly it was only when i got to the pitch i discovered how wrong i was,

    sunderlands shorts where white …and the shirts white trim had bleached the sky blue to almost white at the distance the camera was sitting at, ..i only had the united shorts to help me ..but even then it was difficult to judge once the game started moving and at the speed my reactions were at was considerably slower than usual

    if FIFA had simply given the option of uniteds blue third kit from that season it woulda been problem solved ..but the point to my story is if i had been able to see what colour shorts each team used i would have been able to make a better judgement,

    kits should be judged as an overall whole, not just as a shirt

    now i have a system that dosnt fail, and now (i play PES and can change the shorts and socks) i do not have these problems,

    now if a team i play against uses the same colours as me in any way shape or form i change their kit …..even if their shorts and socks are the same colour as mine ..i change their shorts and socks where possible,

    and whilst i still treat differant colour shades as the same as the regular colour …….ie sky blue is blue and maroon and claret are red ……. i also try to remember that sky blue and white dont match,

    the system never fails regardless of the design

  83. Denis Hurley Says:

    Great story Tony, and obviously I agree with your sentiments!

  84. EricGeneric Says:

    I thought the Real Madrid green kit was the new away kit, and maybe the red one from last season was retained as a third kit.

    But no, I just noticed the green kit is the third, and they have a new navy blue with fluorescent yellow trim as the away.

    When was the last time Madrid didn’t release three new kits at the start of the season?!

  85. Denis Hurley Says:

    Good question, and do dark green and dark blue not clash?

  86. EricGeneric Says:

    They do.

    Also the green kit is so dark, when they wore it at Seville the other week, the socks clashed with Seville’s black ones.

    http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/cicinho-of-sevilla-fc-lobs-the-ball-over-sergio-ramos-of-news-photo/152045394

  87. Denis Hurley Says:

    Don’t Real have form in this regard though? I recall one season that they had black and navy change kits I think?

  88. George Says:

    This isn’t a pointless third kits as they are not unlikely to face a team in white or blue/black so they do need another colour although red would be sufficient and it’s quite a nice kit too.
    But it is still all about the money from the fans.

  89. EricGeneric Says:

    Oh yeah, I don’t imagine there will really be a problem with the colour of the kits. I was more making a general point about teams releasing three new kits each and every season.

    Which I realise is hardly breaking news, and has been discussed on this site many times before.

  90. George Says:

    Surely if the team is actually wearing the kit then there is a need to release a new one but haven’t qpr released a new third kit that they definitely don’t need.

  91. Martyn Ping Says:

    As a long time fan of the German Bundesliga, I was delighted to see that ITV4 have started screening a highlights show on Mondays at 10pm. My point is this: They don’t seem to have any of the above problems in Germany. One example: VfB Stuttgart (known for their all white home kit) were away against Werder Bremen (who play this season in green/white/green) – despite VfB’s almost rigid adherance to all white, they had red away shorts with the regular home shirts and shorts, meaning NO CLASH. On the subject of Stuttgart, their home is all white, away is all red, and third is all black. Mixing and matching means that all potential colour clashes are avoided. Generally in the Bundesliga, odd clashes of shorts or socks etc don’t occur/ don’t cause a problem. My point on these pages is that Puma/adidas/Nike all supply teams in the Bundesliga, yet kit choices are much more logical, meaning (surely) that the clubs in England are responsible? Does anyone see the logic in that?

  92. George Says:

    I see the logic in that and Tottenham could probably mix and match without too much trouble. But as a hull fan I was excited too see that hulls away lot is the opposite to the home kit meaning all elements of the kit could be alternated whilst keeping the identity of the club.

  93. Denis Hurley Says:

    I like Hull’s away kit, but they actually have two sets of black shorts and two sets of amber shorts, which is a big no-no in my book!

  94. Jay29ers Says:

    I knew that one would get you, Denis! We seem to have skimmed over whether Uefa/Fifa actually allow teams to take two pairs of shorts in the same colour to a tournament (anymore). I don’t think they do.

  95. Jay29ers Says:

    Martyn, I think your conclusion is almost right but you’re coming at it from the wrong angle. Please forgive the racial stereotype but it’s more likely that the German clubs (and federation?) are efficiently ensuring that the kits they are given are fit for their (secondary) purpose.

  96. Denis Hurley Says:

    Proof Jay, other than something which could just be down to the Denmark kit manager having an oversight :p

  97. Jay29ers Says:

    England wearing all red against Slovenia and Germany at the last World Cup?

  98. Jay29ers Says:

    (I should also say that I tried to post here my thoughts on what the true function and purpose of – certainly change – kits was, but it failed. Instead I decided to expand on it in a blog article http://ow.ly/1OBi4J Feel free to challenge it)

  99. Denis Hurley Says:

    https://twitter.com/jasonmc72/status/250576446836322304

  100. Jay29ers Says:

    Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

  101. George Says:

    I think the reason for hull having two pairs of each colour is because they are both first choice shorts for each kit but they could have had just the one change pair, but this isn’t because of money as neither of the the amber shorts are actually on sale on the website.

  102. Denis Hurley Says:

    I know that George, but I think that they should have the same black pair for home and away, and the same orange pair for clashes.

    It’s not even as if the designs are markedly different, as when Aston Villa had two sets of white shorts in 1997-98, these are stock adidas designs!

  103. George Says:

    Yes, I think that too but I don’t think teams should be aloud the same coloured shorts as a first choice for two kits anyway.

  104. Denis Hurley Says:

    I don’t have any real problem with that, once there are alternatives.

    Likewise, as said in the article, I’ve no problem if a team’s home and away kits clash, as they never play themselves. Once they sort clashes with the opposition there shouldn’t be an issue.

  105. Martyn Ping Says:

    Jay (95),
    Efficiency probably comes into it, but I just think that German clubs treat their fans with more respect. I’m not saying they’re all perfect – Werder Bremen have changed their home and aways every year since Nike started supplying them (though they do retain the previous seasons away as a third from time to time), and Borussia Dortmund celebrated a link up with Puma by unveiling FOUR kits (!), but the old two season kit cycle that clubs used to (mostly) respect in England exists in Germany – Schalke, Bayern Munchen, Nurnberg, and Leverkusen all have a kit in their roster that was first used in 2011/12.

  106. Denis Hurley Says:

    Agreed about the two-year cycle Martyn – Arsenal’s new home is noteworthy because it respects something which used to be commonplace!

  107. Martyn Ping Says:

    Glad to hear it Denis! I think it would be nice for the likes of Chelsea, Man city et al to follow that example rather than bringing out three new kits every year!

  108. EricGeneric Says:

    I was really surprised when I heard the new Arsenal home kit was going to last for two seasons. I thought everybody had given up on that.

  109. scott grimwood Says:

    one of the main kit problems is caused by the premier league relaxing the short’s clash rule. hence Arsenal rarely having their traditional yellow/blue away kit these day’s. Arsenal alway’s used to put this kit on when they were away to team’s that play with blue shirt’s, white short’s. if the PL went back to the original kit rule that all the kit shouldn’t clash that would solve a lot of the kit problem’s.

  110. ciaran Says:

    Napoli and Lazio is on ESPN tonight.Its surprising that Lazio have a blue band across the chest when it is the primary home colour.Surely it should be excluded from the away kit.

  111. Denis Hurley Says:

    I disagree Scott – what if a team with blue/white/blue away to a team with red/white/red and the blue team’s away is red/white/red?

    You can’t really commit a foul with any part of the body covered by the shorts, so differentiating isn’t that much of an issue for refs

  112. Jay29ers Says:

    Yeah, shorts are often the key and have a vital part to play in avoiding the overall clash. However, that can even mean matching the shorts to the opposition’s to alleviate the “OC”. Trying to avoid shorts being in the same colours can be hugely counterproductive.

  113. Jay29ers Says:

    Anyone see Rooney’s strapping last night? Grey wasn’t a major problem but with the rules on casts and sock tape being so strict now you wonder whether it should have been allowed. I do suspect that if it hadn’t been such a high profile (United) player the officials may have taken a harder line.

  114. EricGeneric Says:

    Sorry to go off topic, but the Guardian have posted an article entitled Are This Season’s Premier League Kits The Worst of All Time? today.

    Just thought I’d post it here.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/sep/27/premier-league-kits

  115. Denis Hurley Says:

    Thanks for that link Eric, at least it’s an objective and thoughtful view of the kits rather than the Daily Mail’s usual rubbish

  116. Ronan Smith Says:

    Enjoyable article, a good read. Thanks for putting it our way Eric. Wouldn’t know anything about articles in other newspapers though, I’d rather read my own death sentence than read the Daily Mail…..

  117. LH Says:

    Novara will host Peterborough in round 1 of my cup. Novara play in blue shirts and black shorts, so which away kit is more appropriate for P’boro? Red and black hoops with black shorts, or given the dark colour of Novara’s shorts, all white? PS, why did Leeds wear their away kit at red cardiff in the league when there was no clash?

  118. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thanks for that Eric. Interesting that it backs up a lot of my own opinions – adidas do tend to leave the OTT adornment alone these days – even when they add extra bits (the orange dots on this years Bayern third, the sky blue ‘net’ on last seasons Chelsea third, the yellow ‘muscles’ on this years Chelsea third) they are done tastefully, and not too intrusively. The problem is that Nike, Umbro and the rest think ‘yeah, that’ll work’ and just issue the kits quickly, then probably think ‘whoops’ when they come out! or maybe they should just say ‘NEW MANCHESTER UNITED KIT – IT’S GINGHAM!’ or ‘NEW ARSENAL KIT – IT’S GOT A WHOLE MOD THING GOING ON ON THE SLEEVES’ instead of coming out with that PR gumph that IMO makes things worse. Lets be honest, younger Arsenal fans probably don’t realise the significance of the ‘WM’ on the back of the shirts, so can we just go back to simplicity please? Don’t over think it, just design a kit with traditional colours, in a clean, uncluttered style…No? Anyone?

  119. EricGeneric Says:

    I’m probably wrong but I think the main reason why Adidas don’t have too many wacky designs is the three stripes are there already, if that makes any sense.

  120. Jay29ers Says:

    Agreed, Eric. And that’s immediately classy, retro/timeless so they’re a step ahead before they’ve even done any work. Apparently the new adidas Hearts kits have outsold the previous Umbro designs many times over. That’s just down to the cachet of the brand because they’ve really just given them teamwear, whereas the Umbro designs tended to be well thought out and original.

  121. Denis Hurley Says:

    When I started watching football, my three teams – Arsenal, Cork City and the Republic of Ireland – all had adidas (none of them have since 1999 now) so that’s probably why it’s my favourite brand.

  122. EricGeneric Says:

    Yeah, Adidas are my favourite too.

    It used to be Nike, up until three years ago, when they seemingly started to lose their mind. I can’t quite like Umbro. I know that I probably should, but I don’t know, it’s like they are trying too hard, or something.

    I’ve always had a soft spot for Kappa, it has to be said. I love how their kits haven’t really changed in the past 10 years, and are instantly recognisable.

  123. Denis Hurley Says:

    Another item for the small but growing list of things we can agree on!

  124. Ronan Smith Says:

    I remember when Arsenal changed to Adidas (around 1986 if I recall correctly) and even before I saw the kit I just KNEW what it would be like and it didn’t let us Gooners down. Hopefully the ‘Arsenal return to Adidas’ rumours are true. Denis, did you ever see the Cork GAA strip made by Adidas that caused a huge row back home around the late seventies?? (it may have been O’Neills that started that particular argument…..)

  125. Denis Hurley Says:

    I did Ronan, very Bayern-esque, it was the county board who had the problem really as the players ordered the jerseys themselves!

  126. Denis Hurley Says:

    And of course the trefoil had to be taped over!

  127. Martyn Ping Says:

    Eric (121),
    I totally agree with you on all points. Firstly, round about 98 up to about 2006 Nike did some GREAT designs, then just went off the rails totally…Umbro had their ‘classic era’ in the 90’s (apart from the grey obsession for England and Man Utd), whereas adidas have been consistently strong since 2002 (the 90’s, with the adidas equipment era, not so great IMO), but I’ve always liked Kappa too. Between 2004 and the end of the contract a few years ago they did some great designs (home, away, and third) for Werder Bremen, and their Italy strips were always nice too, as well as the mid/late 90’s Juventus kits (the home one that used thick black stripes that were arched on the back and sleeves and the mid blue away with yellow stars on the shoulders spring to mind).

  128. Jeff Lewis Says:

    Does any remember a mid seventies game, at Loftus Road, where Derby County were forced to change in to QPR’s away strip of red shirt and white shorts? I can’t remember whether it a colour or Derby brought the wrong away kit.

  129. Andrew Rockall Says:

    Jeff are you 100 sure it wasnt an away kit of Derby’s? They seemd to wear all sorts of eleberate away colours including a Pompey like Blue White Red combo.

  130. Ronan Smith Says:

    I seem to remember Derby wearing someone’s away strip in the ’70’s but I don’t think it was at QPR. They had the brilliant red and white halved shirts at that time. The all-red shirt didn’t appear until about ’81 if memory serves me correct.

  131. Jon Says:

    Jeff, I don’t know if this is the answer to your question but I remember reading an article John posted on this site about Derby wearing a red kit at Millwall, after they forgot the home side wore a white kit back then, rather than their more familiar blue. I can’t find the article on here however (the search feature doesn’t seem to work for me!).

  132. Ronan Smith Says:

    I think you’re spot-on Jon. That rings a bell with me as well because whoever wrote the piece mentioned Derby wearing Nottingham Forest colours……

  133. Jeff Lewis Says:

    I’ve just spotted this clip posted on Youtube and Derby County did wear QPR red shirts but not shorts when they played each other in 1975.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk6–3hZWWI

  134. John Devlin Says:

    Having just finished a complete review of Derby’s kits in the 70s this is of particular interest to me! Jeff, you’re right, Derby simply borrowed QPR’s away shirt for that game and Jon, you’re right they pulled a similar trick when playing Millwall. If memory serves it was particularly ironic as Derby had just won the championship and the Millwall players formed a guard of honour as they ran out onto the pitch wearing Millwall shirts!!

    I do have a feeling they did something similar against another side as well at about that time.

    For the record Derby’s regular away kits in the 70s included yellow/blue, all blue, blue/white/red, red/white, pale blue/white stripes, pale blue/dark blue stripes.

  135. Jeff Lewis Says:

    Here is another Derby County oddity, this time from 1972/73, when the majority of people still had black and white televisions. During this period I do know Manchester United would help broadcasters our by changing from their normal away kit of blue shirts and white shorts to a plain all white strip. So I can’t think of any reason why Derby would need to change their home strip to all blue against Leeds United side wearing all red. For anyone with a black and white set both teams would look the same.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeP_ylL9Xrs&feature=g-upl

  136. John Devlin Says:

    That ones a little easier to explain, its down to the old fashioned rule that when two sides played in the Cup BOTH teams had to change kits if there was a clash.

  137. Jeff Lewis Says:

    John that makes perfect sense. Other than another of Don Revie’s many superstitions I can’t see any reason why Leeds United would need return to an all red kit last worn in 1970.

  138. Denis Hurley Says:

    That rule once led to Newcastle and Sunderland wearing each other’s kits on the same day!

  139. EricGeneric Says:

    Say whaaaaat!!!

    Please explain more, Denis…

  140. Denis Hurley Says:

    Read down at the bottom of this page Eric http://historicalkits.co.uk/Newcastle_United/Newcastle_United-change-kits.html

  141. Michael Says:

    Newcastle to wear lime green when they visit Sunderland tomorrow… apparently the black and white kit clashes with Sunderland’s red and white. Baffling.

  142. Jay29ers Says:

    They wore an Away/Third back in 2007-08 too. Generally an exception’s made but it seems there’ll be no special treatment this year.

  143. Denis Hurley Says:

    A reminder that clashes are dealt with very differently in Gaelic games, something I dug out of the archives: http://www.prideinthejersey.com/1967MunsterFinal.html

  144. Davewes Says:

    Spurs v Liverpool “Red Devils” play in Black
    Swansea v Norwich “Canaries play in Black
    Man Utd v Newcastle “Magpies” play in Yellow
    Norwich v Chelsea “Blues” play in white
    Reading v Swansea Swansea play in red
    Sunderland v Spurs “Lilywhites” play in dark blue
    QPR v Liverpool “Red Devils” play in Black
    WBA v Fulham Fulham play in yellow
    Southampton v Arsenal
    Clash of reds so Arsenal play in dark blue but Southampton goalie plays in BLACK

    Where has the pride gone?

  145. EricGeneric Says:

    You can’t really argue with Fulham wearing their away kit at West Brom, Tottenham wearing navy blue at Sunderland, and Swansea wearing red at Reading, since they were clashes.

    I suppose you could argue that Tottenham could have used their home kit, but there is white on the Sunderland and I think it’s better for teams to change in that situation.

    But I get your point.

  146. Ronan Smith Says:

    Ironically Eric, Sunderland went to Bolton today and didn’t change.

  147. john gordon Says:

    Forest v Oldham in FA cup today – Oldham wearing all Navy and Forest keeper wearing all dark purple. Impossible to tell the difference

  148. Jay29ers Says:

    Take and agree with the point, Davewes, but Liverpool are really, really, really not the “Red Devils”.

  149. Jay29ers Says:

    Here you go http://bit.ly/N31D9Q

  150. Jay29ers Says:

    Oops. Wrong thread. Sorry, John.

  151. autoq Says:

    scotland versus italy Rugby 6 nations – ludicrous – they had the SAME shorts and the same blue in both tops !

  152. James Says:

    Barnsley forced to wear Crystal Palace’s away kit yesterday because of a “clash”

    Palace of course wearing the red and blue home kit. Barnsley turned up with their red home kit and the blue and black away shirt. However Barnsley were forced to wear Palace’s away kit of yellow and blue stripes.

    Only a small clash and with the yellow trim on Palace’s kit I found it rather confusing

  153. Matt F Says:

    That wouldn’t be the first time that has happened to Barnsley.

    I went to a Swindon Town home game back in 1990 and the Tykes had to wear the Swindon yellow 3rd strip as the ref deemed that the Barnsley away kit of white shirts & red shorts clashed with the red of Swindon!
    It was odd watching Swindon home vs Swindon away.

  154. Tony Spike Says:

    Well a couple of years ago we had the odd situation of tranmere rovers playing in colchesters gold third kit because the ref decided that neither tranmeres white home or sky blue away contrasted enough with colchesters blue and white striped,

    millwall donning my team sheffield wednesdays away kit from the year previous (the yellow and blue westfield health one) for the same reasons …then trotting out in their orange third at half time (begging the question if they brought it then why did they need to borrow ours …..they didnt drive it up from milwall in 45 minutes thats for sure)

    And mansfield having to borrow bristol rovers away shirts from the previous season (the black one with CR Windows sponsoring) due to “unforseen circumstsnces” (chalk that one up to the kit man forgetting the shirts then)

    I cannot help but feel that this would be avoided if the F.A stopped running on tradition and implimented a similar system to the NFL

    NFL teams must submit a uniform schedual to the NFL before the season starts thus ensuring everyone knows what the opposition is wearing well in hand and can properly plan for any changes should they arise

    Now yes this would take a certain spontinaity out of the game …..and yes i am a fan of this aspect of football as much as the next man, but stupid clashes can admittedly be a “ball ache” to coin a popular phrase we use round these parts

    Love to know what anyone else thinks

  155. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    That is already in place in the Premier League, the handbook is available online, I’m sure every kit man in the League has a copy too. (I suspect the FL have the same rule in place, I just cannot confirm that)

  156. Matt Says:

    #155… tis true, All kits must be submitted to the FL who compare and tell the clubs in which games they will need a 3rd kit. This is done in plenty of time usually. (Although you can’t make allowances for a picky referee over ruling them on the day!)

  157. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    If that was the case, the FL would have told Bristol Rovers not to turn up at Rochdale with purple and black striped shirts the season the home side wore blue and black stripes.

    I honestly don’t think the Premier League/FL care after clubs submit their kits. If they did they’d have told Man City having sky/navy/purple as their three kit options was unacceptable.

  158. Tony Spike Says:

    I dont think its the case they dont care, i think its the case they do not ENFORCE like the NFL does, i believe the NFL has the power to fine clubs if they rock up in something other than what they have stated they will wear

    The FA/FL definitly has no power over what colours a team decides its wearing at the begining of a season thats down to the clubs/manufacturers to decide and thats how it should be, i fear anything more could constitute a breech of freedom of expression or something like that and would open up a can of worms

    But they do have the power to control picky refs and to enforce matchday rules on kits if it arises, may be it should start their

  159. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Matt I would have no problem refereeing Man City in Sky Blue v their reserves in Navy. Afterwards the youth team can wear the Purple kit and challenge either/both, as there is no clash.

    FIFA would probably even be OK with this. Light, Dark & Medium.

  160. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Purple v Navy is a clash. It might look fine close up, but try watching a game from a distance. Dale did this when they had a purple away kit and played teams in blue. It was horrible.

    Sky blue v royal blue is wrong.

  161. Martyn Ping Says:

    This is one of my biggest irritants in modern football. It makes absolutely no sense to me – there are a huge amount of colours available, so WHY do kit suppliers use colours from the same spectrum? sky blue teams should NOT have royal blue, navy blue, or purple away kits. What is wrong with giving Man City a red and black away, with a white third? Historically, its covered EVERY SINGLE clash without any problems. Similarly for royal blue teams. Purple IS NOT a viable away colour. EVER. I’ve said it before on these pages, you never see a red team wearing a claret or orange away shirt, and its the same principle. Why are shades of blue / purple considered an exception?

  162. Tony Spike Says:

    i would assume man city dont wear red or avoid it for the same reason sheffield wednesday dont

    i know city has worn red and black stripes in the past (that 1995 umbro kit they shared a template with notts forest and chelsea sprigs to mind)

    but with red and black being uniteds colours i would assume they would rather avoid using them where possible

  163. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Can’t believe that as red & black stripes are traditional City away colours. I’ve seen fans with hats and scarves of that colour too. If it was ever an issue, they’d never have used them time and again over the years.

  164. Martyn Ping Says:

    Exactly. It’s one of the rare occasions of a club embracing the colours of their rivals – worn famously in the ’69 cup final, throughout the 80’s, and time and again since. Maybe it’s Nike getting paranoid about brand identity while they supplied Utd – now that deal has ended, what’s the problem? My whole point is that a clubs kits HAVE to have differentiation, and this ‘lifestyle’ kit rubbish has to end. If Nike don’t want red and black for City, why not solid black and a white third? that would make sense, wouldn’t it?

  165. Jon Says:

    Outside of the Premier League, the issue with completely superfluous change kits is very much evident……. for instance Bordeaux in the French League have brought out yet another third kit which is primarily navy, despite their home kit being navy. For the fifth season running!!!

  166. Tony Spike Says:

    makes sense to me for city to use a black or white away shirt but whilst i know red and black are traditional city colours i still feel that whoever has made their recent kits has not even considered this because of the united connection to those colours

    it probly is a brand identity thing, but everybody has a differing idea of what clashes

    for example my personal experiences with FIFA (see one of my previous posts on this article for the details) teach me white is a clash with a particular shade of sky blue when that sky blue is paired with light or white shorts like city kits traditionally are

    and that this particular combination does not actually clash much with blue, royal blue, indigo or any other dark shade of blue so long as it is a light enough sky blue, in these cases a purple away kit might not be so stupid if the only colour you will wear it against are teams in white

    obviously as i state in my FIFA post its not something i would risk personally but it kind of makes sense

    hue and tone are as much considerations in what colours clash as much as actual colour is, and blue resides on the cool side of the spectrum, thus their is a much more noticeable variation between its different hues than their is with warm colours like red, orange and yellow witch blend together easier in my experience

    in my experiences as an artist colours like green and purple have much more in common with yellow and red respectively than they do with blue, blue overpowers the colours easyer so for example greens that reside on the blue end of the spectrum tend to look more blue than green but greens on the yellow end look like a brighter green if you catch my meaning, in the same way purple has more in common with red tone wise

    but again …this is my personal experience

  167. Martyn Ping Says:

    I understand where you’re coming from when dealing with the issue of colour in its purest form – however, when those colours are printed onto polyester, often with shadow patterns, metallic tints etc, then the issue becomes more complicated. For example, as I have pointed out before, Augsburg wearing all green last season and the season before against teams in all red doesn’t sound like a clash, but put them together and it is genuinely difficult to tell them apart. I do yearn for the 90’s, when apart from a few cases, clubs seemed to be much more sensible with kit choices. Sadly I think its something we’re stuck with.

  168. Tony Spike Says:

    while i agree the 90s were better, if you genuine cannot tell red and green apart then their is a deeper issue and that’s colour blindness LMAO (sorry im not saying you are ….but it is a trait of colour blindness lol)

    seriously though they ARE at opposite ends of the spectrum so the chances of them clashing are remote, i will however admit the problem is compounded with shadow patterns and the like but without witnessing this phenomenon for myself i cannot really comment, …they do however look aweful on the same shirt, …yeah im looking at you maritimo …and many brazil sides

    but yes i do agree shadowing and metalics can confuse and i will admit i am mistaken at times by these fashions myself

    for example was once convinced England’s 1996 away kit was a shade of light blue not grey for some reason (probably looked blue to me in a few photos) but that was when i was younger, and even though it was officially called indigo blue by umbro …..it clearly wasnt

    this is the same lad that thought sheffield wednesday had a silver away shirt in 2003 when it was apperently gold, (wasnt alone either ..FIFA 2003 thought the same) or thought derby countys 1998 away kit was purple and not dark blue,

  169. Martyn Ping Says:

    With all due respect, the Augsburg situation I referred to wasn’t colour blindness, it was a particular shade of green (bottle) that when on the same pitch as a team playing in all red created problems – although they shouldn’t clash, the effect of two teams playing in similar SHADES created a partial clash. This is part of the problem I’ve been referring to – although kit designers may sit in a design studio and think ‘yeah, that’s fine, it doesn’t clash, its different colours’, when they’re on the pitch the problems begin.

  170. Tony Spike Says:

    well i did quick internet search and found Augsberg vs Bayern all green vs all red …………… saw no visible clash (not even a partial one) myself so im not seeing the problem and i watched 4 different matches to make sure

    i can understand where your coming from about shades (its been the gist of what i have said) but only when the colours are similar

    green and red shouldn’t clash unless you have a particular form of eye problem ………or a floodlight problem ……thats not the fault of a designer given that red and green are two separate colours that should be opposites of each other

  171. Martyn Ping Says:

    Should be opposites but aren’t. You’re missing my point – the point is that Augsburg used a bottle green strip when all white was available and wouldn’t have clashed AT ALL with all red. Similarly, I don’t think that all black is always suitable against all royal blue – different colours, similar shades. The issue is that two teams playing against each other should have CLEAR differentation. I’ve personally never understood why in some instances yellow is considered a clash against white. I am NOT colour blind, merely pointing out a potential, if unusual, issue.

  172. Tony Spike Says:

    actually no i am not missing your point at all, you have made the same point as me the only difference is we don’t agree on the red vs green situation, im not mocking you by calling you colour blind it was a bit of fun based on the red vs green differential but i am seriously wondering now, and i will give you my reasons

    firstly your still telling me a bottled green strip clashed with a red strip when i have watched those matches in question myself (and a few others) and I SEE no clashes AT ALL,

    repeating it wont make it a good example when simply put I PERSONALLY DID NOT SEE the problem in the matches i watched, they might have had a white strip but given their was no clash i don’t see the issue even the shades of red and green do not make a difference since they do not clash in those games at all a change wasnt really needed, it might make more sense to you but i didnt feel it was needed

    the only time this would be an issue would be if the green was paired with red stripes in some way – not only would the reds clash but their is a chance of the shirt looking brown, bayern or any other team would need to have a down right claret/burgundy red kit before i would even consider green on its own as a clash and even then its a stretch

    but looking at those Augsberg matches i see no issue, and so i dont quite know where you are looking

    if you are seeing one than its either your eyes or the lighting making you think their is one, i am not going to disrespect you by guessing witch it is, …..im not all that interested to tell the truth ….but i can definitely say without conviction, that i see NO clash, and it is what i would expect

    now white clashes with yellow on a contrast basis, it depends on the colour its paired with and the lighting on the day, its a similar situation to the black vs royal blue situation you mention and is subject to a lot of differential factors …including tone of the yellow (a more gold colour might be dark enough not to clash for example)

  173. Martyn Ping Says:

    I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. Needless to say, it was a shade, not a colour clash. I could tell the two teams apart, of course, but as I have said, Augsburg were at home. Their home colours are all white, yet they switched to bottle green just because the white featured red side bars. The white would have worked better. Similarly, Hannover had a black third shirt when the home was a very dark shade of red, paired with black shorts. In Rugby Union, Leicester Tigers play in a combination of red and green. If the two colours are not separated by white trim, as last season, the red pinstripe is swamped by the green, meaning its visibility is almost zero. More examples? How about the Aston Villa mid 90’s away shirt – black and green stripes trimmed with red. The red either clashed horribly or vanished, depending on the circumstances. In certain instances over the years, red and blue, those two traditional opposites, HAVE clashed. See? Different colours, similar SHADES. SHADE, SHADE, SHADE. NOT colour.

  174. Tony Spike Says:

    well not really, your lauding red and green as being the same colour depending on the shade, when it isn’t

    repeating yourself isn’t making your point any better either, given that i already understand where you are getting at,

    you can say SHADE 3 times all you want but at the end of the day this isn’t a case of me not getting what you are saying its a case of you just being wrong

    you see the only time the shade matters in a red vs green situation is when both colours are almost white or almost black, but neither team had this problem, ……..i actually agree with Augsberg, their away contained red, so they should avoid a clash altogether by changing if they had the option, and they did,

    but if you could tell them apart AT ALL their was NO CLASH, just because you think a shirt is a better idea dosnt mean their was a clash nor does it mean their is a shade clash …..it means you have an eye problem

    you see the problem here is only one of those examples you have provided is ANY indication of how shade matters, and thats the red vs black situation

    but its a STRETCH, the red would have to be practically black and regular red would only clash when paired with the black shorts, it would look lighter when paired with red or white shorts,

    but that is the only time shade matters at all, when a colour is put against white or black since white and black are SHADES not COLOURS ……red, green and blue are all colours,

    but none of your other examples are examples

    if the red is swamped by the other two colours on the SAME SHIRT then the shirt is green and it is hardly an example of how two different shirts will clash with each other

    the idea of another colour swamping the red till its almost invisible has nothing to do with the shade, its because their is more of the other colour on the shirt

    also the only time red and blue clash is if the other colour is more of a purple or if the other team has a red and blue stripe, but again this is a COLOUR issue not a shade issue

    its not rocket science man, …….seriously, get an eye test, your worrying me now

  175. Martyn Ping Says:

    I don’t enter into these discussions to be insulted or insult. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I shall not be expressing mine with you any more – I’d rather join a constructive discussion about issues that come up in this weird and wonderful world of football kits, not say ‘I’m right’ or ‘you’re wrong’. That’s not what discussing is.

  176. Denis Hurley Says:

    I think it’s best to just agree to disagree lads, neither of you is going to convince the other, but no need to let it get out of hand. We can discuss kits while staying civil too!

  177. Martyn Ping Says:

    Too true Denis!

  178. Tony Spike Says:

    i didn’t come here to insult you either martin, im just telling you your trying to convince me of something that i can see with my own eyes is the opposite, its not about who is right and who is wrong, im just telling you its insane to do it given their are any number of factors that effect personal experience, ….anything from the kind of light entering the eyes to the pattern of the blood vessels in the retina

    i also never said you were not entitled to an opinion, i only gave you reasons why MY opinion was valid, and that IS how a discussion works

    i just want you to know however, …..i don’t think your an idiot just because your opinion is different to mine (sorry if it seems that way and sorry if i was a little blunt earlier), in fact i have agreed with some things you have said just not others

    but this is what makes it an interesting discussion, so many factors in a clash its not like we can just narrow it down using simple factors, may be its a more complicated subject than we think

  179. Tony Spike Says:

    sorry Dennis i didn’t intend on this becoming a bitch fest,

  180. Denis Hurley Says:

    I know, Tony – it’s strange how kits can get us all het-up! I used to regularly have running battles with EricGeneric and he doesn’t post here anymore, I hope the two aren’t related :/

  181. Tony Spike Says:

    probably not lol

  182. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thats OK Tony (sorry, I only just saw your post). You’re right – kits are one thing that invites colourful debate, and sometimes it gets a little heated!
    My main problem these days is that there seems to be a lack of clear solutions by kit suppliers to solve clashes. My pet hate is suppliers using a different shade of the same colour ie navy away and royal blue home. What happened to opposites?

  183. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Sorry to labour a point Martin but Navy Blue and Sky Blue, despite both having Blue in their names, are about as opposite as you can get. I’d put Royal Blue somewhere in between and confidently say it clashed with neither.

  184. Martyn Ping Says:

    Portsmouth – first season in the PL – see John’s comments in the original TC book. And would you seriously tell me that Chelsea vs Man City, both in home kits, is acceptable? given the level of white trim prevalent in both cases I don’t think its right at all – I accept it not a glaring clash but its still a clash. My point is that change kits exist to avoid any clash – so I expect to see Chelsea in black at the Etihad and City in the fluorescent third at the Bridge. Of course, they’ll probably show up in the navy away, so what do I know!

  185. Denis Hurley Says:

    Royal blue clashes with navy, in my eyes – not enough contrast.

    Royal v sky has contrast, though obviously it’s not ideal. Clearly, referees have seen enough differentiation to allow Chelsea and City play each other in home kits in recent times and Everton went a good while without changing away to City.

    On all of those occasions, the team in royal had blue shorts too, which aided distinguishing the teams. Man City away to Birmingham in 2011 – http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/carlos-tevez-of-manchester-city-shoots-past-martin-jiranek-news-photo/108748024 – is harder to tell apart on first glance because both are also in white shorts. Birmingham had worn red in Manchester.

    Navy and sky blue don’t clash at all – though interestingly in the Six Nations the home team always change when Scotland play Italy, even though Italy have a fairly light blue.

    Portsmouth 2003-04 are a special case in that the navy was literally an “away kit” – I don’t think the blue was worn away at all. They had a white “change kit”, when playing away to teams in blue.

  186. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thanks Denis – navy doesn’t clash with sky, as you said, but if a sky blue team plays white it can cause problems as well, particularly the very light shade City have favoured since Reebok arrived. Didn’t they play Bolton away in red and black in the first year of the Reebok deal? I seem to remember Anelka and possibly Tarnat scoring?

  187. Martyn Ping Says:

    *Should have said ‘since the Reebok days’ – I know they’ve had Reebok, Le Coq Sportif (returning for one season), Umbro and Nike since then, but the shade is still the almost powder blue that Reebok brought back (a la ’80’s Umbro).

  188. Jon Says:

    Portsmouth wore their home kit at West Brom pn the final day of the 04/05 season, because their navy away and white third kits clashed. Notable game for West Brom doing their great escape.

    I know in the likes of South America it is not at all uncommon to see teams in sky blue against royal or navy blue.

  189. Tony Spike Says:

    well when Wednesday played man city at the etihad in the cup last year back we changed to our yellow away …..we nearly beat them too

    just adding white to the blue can create a clash

  190. Martyn Ping Says:

    I could be wrong, but haven’t Wednesday always changed at Man City? Proves that even in this day and age sanity sometimes prevails, just like back in the 90’s! As I’ve said before, when I first started following football in ’94 I didn’t even know what a third kit was, as they were still relatively rare. Now everyone brings them out when they’re needed or not. A case in point – will Arsenal’s new third be REALLY needed? I think the shade of gold used on the away, coupled with the shadow pattern, means the answer is probably no.

  191. Denis Hurley Says:

    It probably won’t Martyn, which is why the third is marketed as a cup away. The first strip I remember being marketed as a third was Aston Villa’s yellow and blue one from 1991-92 (too young to recall Manchester United’s red/white/blue in the 80s or Liverpool red/white/yellow).

    I think Wednesday would always have to change at City, blue and white strips can give the effect of light blue

  192. Martyn Ping Says:

    First time I was aware of a third kit was probably ’95 – it was the West Ham one with an off white body and claret sleeves, made by Pony. Nice strip, but it was in itself pretty superfluous considering the very reason for its use would’ve clashed as well!
    As regards the marketing of ‘cup’ strips, I don’t like it, personally. Bayern call their third strip an ‘International’ (ie Europe) strip, and in the group stages wear it at home, but generally its usually a solution to the old ‘red home / white away’ problem, caused by strips that contain both (such as stripes / halves etc). The Arsenal one just seems a bit pointless considering the away shirt covers most clashes – its purely a money making exercise (Puma have previous in this – why give Dortmund a third strip when the chances of playing a team in yellow are slim / none at all? Only Dresden and Aachen even play in similar colours, both in the third division or lower). Sad but true reflection of modern football.

  193. Tony Spike Says:

    Like i said ……white and blue can create a clash with sky blue

    So yeah we always change at both manchester and coventry city

    But its funny though cos blue can either work or not work as a change depending on the situation

    In 2003 against coventry we wore our dark blue away (diadora sponsored and supplied) and it caused no problems while they had that all sky blue in house made kit

    but back in 1997 coventry brought their purple and indigo yellow trimmed peugeot sponsored kit …the one that had purple shorts and yellow socks when we had that predominiantly white kit (white arms with two thin stripes either side of a white chest paneled number) ….it was kinda hard to see who was who cos we had blue shorts with it

    So so purple is not necesarilly going to be a solution even if we wear mostly white, its wierd how that works out the same when its the other way round isnt it

  194. Tony Spike Says:

    And FYI martyn ….the cream coloured west ham kit with the claret arms came with claret shorts …..they only wore it at villa cos it provided better contrast than their all sky blue away did ….villa had white shorts that year and their change pair was sky blue you see so i would assume that was the reason they wore it instead of the away, im not sure how effective it was but since they retained it the following season i would assume it was

    But im surprised you didnt see manchester uniteds blue and white striped affair from the same season

    Its better know for being wheele out at half time during the southampton match the next year (95-96) …..because their grey away clashed with the crowd of all things …..but it was used in 94 -95 as well

  195. Stuart Bateman Says:

    If we are talking 3rd and even 4th kits. Go no further than chelsea in 60s and 70s just have a look on the historical football kits site!!!

  196. Stuart Bateman Says:

    By my reckoning in 1965-66 they wore a yellow, red, white and blue/black striped away kit!!!

  197. tony Says:

    did anyone else see this clash at the weekend Luton v Oxford .. wonder if Oxford’s yellow/navy would have clashed less than the away did ?

    http://www.lutontown.co.uk/cms_images/ox361175-2621816_478x359.jpg

  198. Martyn Ping Says:

    Do Oxford have a third kit? If not, surely if they wore (what I assume) are change yellow shorts with their normal home shirt it wouldn’t have been a problem? I know yellow v orange is considered a clash, but with Luton using blue as a second colour I would say it just about works – better than red and black stripes though!

    My argument about that West Ham third is that the all sky away would work against Villa, being as the main body is claret, except if Villa had stripes – but the traditional Villa look shouldn’t really clash with all sky IMO.

    That Man Utd blue and white was only wheeled out because they were losing and Ferguson threw a wobbly at half time! But yeah, against Southampton it too wasn’t ideal. I may be biased but Bayern’s solution to have a red home, white away, and black/grey/navy third is perfect – every permutation is covered.

    Of course, Leeds had three kits in the early 70’s too, the mix and match approach that they wore sometimes of blue shirts and yellow shorts could just about be classed as a fourth considering they wore the combination more than once. Do you have a pic of those Chelsea 65-66 kits? I’d like to see them out of interest – that was rare pre 1980’s wasn’t it?

  199. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Martyn, those Chavski kits can be found here:

    http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Chelsea/Chelsea-change-kits.html

  200. Martyn Ping Says:

    Very interesting, thanks Andy. What was the reason behind their sudden adoption of Inter Milan colours? And looking slightly forwards I see they went decidedly Welsh colour wise in the 70’s. Again, was there a reason for this? I always thought that Chelsea had worn white or red or yellow (at a time when pretty much everyone had yellow aways) – I never realised their away kits pre 1980’s were so varied…

  201. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    I don’t think clubs thought about identity much back then, traditionally Clubs reversed their first choice colours, in some cases that wasn’t possible. Directors had far more influence back then, maybe some selections where made on a whim.

    Man United changed from Blue to Yellow as a third kit in the early Seventies changing back again within 5 years, there doesn’t seem to be any particular reason.

  202. Denis Hurley Says:

    @Martyn – are you saying that West Ham could wear their away at Villa Park this season? I wouldn’t think so.

    Re Luton-Oxford: if the PL allowed Arsenal to wear yellow at Blackpool in 2010-11, surely Oxford in all-yellow would be allowed, it’s definitely less problematic than red/black v orange/navy.

    I think that blue shirts with yellow shorts and socks was Leeds’ first-choice away after Don Revie changed the home colours to all-white. I don’t think there was any real mixing and matching, maybe Allan ‘Sniffer’ Clarke can come back and tell us for sure?!

  203. Jon Says:

    Quite a poor clash from Oxford in my opinion, even in spite of the black stripes. I agree the yellow would probably have been a better option but with foresight they should have introduced a third kit for this particular match.

    I think West Ham’s away kit would clash too much with Villa to be honest, if you cast your mind back to 2009 there was a similar instance where West Ham turned up in sky blue but Villa had to change to their white third shirts to resolve a clashing problem.

    P.S. on the subject of Chelski away kits, I wonder what they wore at Man City in the 86/87 season? I know they wore the home kit at Coventry, but given that the jade away kit would have clashed more, would this have been the first instance of them wearing (royal) blue at Man City, which is something more commonplace now?

  204. Martyn Ping Says:

    Denis,
    My point is that the all sky hasn’t caused a problem in the past – though, you’re probably right about this season – Umbro’s version of the old faithful with its claret yoke will probably clash much more than twin chest bands. We’ll see. Have West Ham unveiled a third yet?

    Speaking of Umbro thirds, that new Everton green affair is just gross. Pairing green with orange has worked before – Werder Bremen and Greuther Furth have done it with much success, but Everton’s green is too dark – possibly giving it orange sleeves or something like that would’ve worked. And what was the purpose of unveiling it at Southampton? Is there ANY aspect of the Everton home that clashes with the Saints? Surely West Brom would’ve been a better choice? Maybe even Newcastle with the amount of blue on it this season.

    Denis (2) – I know this’ll probably have everyone in a frantic researching frenzy, but I believe that Leeds’ away in the late 60’s was all royal blue, changing to all yellow a few years later – they wore the yellow shorts with the blue shirts when playing away at Derby or Spurs because of a shorts clash, but the away / third were all one colour, as with the home.

  205. Denis Hurley Says:

    Martyn – if you read here http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk/misc/kits.htm it mentions Leeds wearing blue shirts/yellow shorts at West Brom. The all-yellow only came in the 70s, I think.

  206. Denis Hurley Says:

    I was wrong about them not mixing and matching, as can be seen here – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfWsSPgbvCI – but the shorts clash doesn’t seem to have been a consideration.

  207. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thanks, Denis.
    The first time I was aware of the yellow and blue kit was for match highlights against Derby when Clough was at the Baseball Ground – puts it between ’69 and ’73 I think. I’d also seen some clips (possibly goal of the season or MOTD retrospectives) of Peter Lorimer from about the same period scoring some screamers in the all yellow kit. That’s what led me to believe that the blue and yellow was a mix & match rather than a proper kit, and the presence of navy shorts at White Hart Lane and black at Derby was a possible reason. I would dispute Jack Charlton’s asertion that the change was down to pragmatism rather than homage – Revie was a well known admirer of ‘Los Blancos’, and his skipper Billy Bremner was at Hampden for the 7-3 EC win over Eintracht Frankfurt, so its always made sense to me.

  208. Denis Hurley Says:

    Oh I’d agree – not the first time Big Jack has talked beans I’d say!

  209. Jon Says:

    Leeds wore all-red for a change kit some time between the blue change kit, and the all-yellow strip. Most certainly in 1970/71 they wore red as a change kit, and a rare orange kit at Stoke which got covered on this very site.

    http://www.truecoloursfootballkits.com/articles/leeds-united-third-kit-1970-71

    It sounds like from 1971 onwards was when all-yellow became almost as synonymous with Leeds as their all-white home kit.

  210. John Devlin Says:

    Hello folks, you’re right Martyn. My understanding from a contact at Leeds who is an expert on kits is that they very much had a mix and match policy for their away kits from the mid 60s through to early 70s. This also included variations on badge usage and also trim, sometimes non contrasting and sometimes contrasting. Blue, yellow, red and of course orange were all worn. I did illustrate quite a few for their programmes a couple of years ago and will do my best to dig them out….

  211. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thanks, John, look forward to it. The 60’s and 70’s were an interesting time for kit experimentation, with clubs ditching years of convention (or simple reversed versions of their home colours) and trying new, and sometimes highly unusual, away colours. Leeds are one example, but also Coventry (green and black), QPR (red and white halves/black shorts), and Newcastle (all red) – also Crystal Palace and their schizophrenic approach to colours which began at that time. And my club, Bayern, from adidas’ arrival in 1965 up to 1974, changed their home, away, and international (third) colours almost every year until they settled on the familiar all red home and white away combinations.

  212. Tony Spike Says:

    i remember seeing a curious leeds vs chelsea match from the 70s where leeds wore red socks with their white home kit ….a colour more associated with chelsea …and chelsea wore yellow socks with their all blue home …a colour more associated with leeds, ..im assuming it was a case of using the away socks of the time rather than a case of borrowing the other teams but its strange they should choose these colours and that they even considered them a clash issue

  213. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think that was the ’71 FA Cup Final replay at Old Trafford?

  214. Ronan Smith Says:

    1970 Martyn. Leeds wore red socks at Wembley, Chelsea changed to yellow socks for the Old Trafford (not forgetting the trim on their shorts to yellow as well and even the badge if memory serves me correctly).

  215. Martyn Ping Says:

    Arrrgggghhh! yes you’re right, I should’ve known that…1971 was the ‘Charlie George’ final between Arsenal and Liverpool. Apologies to any Gunners I may have offended!

  216. Ronan Smith Says:

    We forgive you!

  217. Pat Brazzier Says:

    The Premier League and the FA Cup are the only two competitions in the world (that I know of) that allow two teams to wear the same colour shorts in a match. This is due to the extremely bad wording of FIFA Law 4 regarding a clash of kit. Last weekend Southampton played Everton who turned up in Dark Green Shirts and Black shorts instead of their traditional Blue and White!!!

  218. Denis Hurley Says:

    Bit much to say that PL and FA Cup are the only two, Pat – in fact, I’d make the case that the cup are far stricter than the PL.

    This, from Spain, I’d consider a shorts clash http://img02.mundodeportivo.com/2014/04/20/FC-BARCELONA-ATH-BILBAO-FOTO-M_54405988271_54115221154_600_396.jpg

    It happened in World Cup 94 (a good while ago, I accept! – though Italy-USA in 2006 was arguably one too) http://www.soccermond.com/fifa/world_cup/1994_usa/matches/pics/mexico-bulgaria.jpg

    Check out this from 1991, shorts *and* socks! http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4-sIiEvg9Io/hqdefault.jpg

  219. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, I thought that Southampton / Everton was a bit bonkers, to say the least. Back in the 90’s away shorts were commonplace in England – was a regulation in place then but not now? Because its happened loads of times in the last few years, but I can remember Man Utd wearing black change shorts, Everton blue or black, Blackburn blue (when the first choice was white), Man City navy or sky, Forest black, and so on. There didn’t seem to be half as many bizarre kit choices back then (though I accept it did happen).

    As regards to those examples Denis, the first I would definitely call a clash – I hate navy against black. The second and third examples I think just a good old fashioned impasse – Bulgaria wearing their away strip(correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the home AND away strips have white shorts…?) and Mexico not changing because they were the ‘home’ team. The Marseille Milan match not surprising as both teams are loathe to use alternative home shorts.

  220. Denis Hurley Says:

    Bulgaria-Mexico wasn’t an impasse, Martyn – Bulgaria’s home shorts were green but FIFA were keen to avoid white shirts/green shorts against green shirts/white shorts. When Ireland played them in the same World Cup, they wore white home shorts with white away shirts.

    When Milan met Marseille in the 1993 CL final, both wore white shorts again but Milan changed to black socks.

    Shorts changes come down to team preference in the league. Manchester United, Everton and Forest all still change shorts, though City have got caught up in this ‘preserving the integrity of the kit’ nonsense.

    The only time I recall them changing shorts in recent times was when there wasn’t actually a shorts clash as it was away to Fulham, but they felt that their white shorts might have been troublesome with Fulham’s white shirts.

  221. Martyn Ping Says:

    Sorry, Denis – memory playing tricks on me – for some reason I thought that Bulgaria’s home was green! Never mind…

    It is nonsense about preserving kit integrity – only Arsenal, I think, have (mostly) refused to change their shorts in England – in Germany, Bayern haven’t worn alternative home shorts since 05-06 (and that was when the home ones were white anyway) – they’re not sacred about socks though, and have changed them from time to time.

  222. Jon Says:

    Liverpool are another such team who preserve the integrity of their home kit, not that there are many occasions where they’ve played another team who wear red shorts. The last instance being at Watford in the early 80’s when they had a yellow change kit. Celtic are another example, only instance I’ve ever seen them wear anything other than white shorts with the hoops was at Arsenal in a friendly in 1991 – and they even wore numbered shirts.

    Man City wore what appeared to be last season’s home shorts at Everton today.

  223. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yes, saw that – poor bit of planning by Nike, wasn’t it? Surely the shorts of the navy away shirt would’ve been OK? This whole business of poor planning on kit suppliers part is really starting to annoy me – Bayern always unveil their away shirt with its own shorts but produce alternatives in time for the first use – for example, the 12-13 white and orange, unveiled as an all white kit, was paired with orange shorts and socks; the 13-14 ‘Octoberfest’ kit had alternative white shorts; last seasons white with red, blue and grey hoops had an alternative maroon pair of shorts, and this seasons all white has already seen use with navy shorts. Its not just the away strips – the Euro strips in 12-13 and 13-14 had bespoke alternative white socks, not just the away pair. Come on Nike, if adidas can do it, why can’t you? I seem to also remember Arsenal during Nike’s time having to use ‘cobbled together’ combinations of their various strips when the three in use didn’t work. In fact, I think the only bespoke alternative shorts were with the yellow and maroon away of a few seasons back – didn’t it have an alternative yellow pair?

  224. Denis Hurley Says:

    It did, but it wasn’t the only Arsenal change strip to have alternative shorts/socks.

  225. Tony Spike Says:

    Except arsenal played in their blue shorts with their home kit a few years back so thats bollocks …….pardon my rudeness ……and they love playing in either their alternate red or white socks when they get chance

    Only spanish and italian teams are ever concerned with kit integrety from what i have seen

    Mostly barca, real and milan,

  226. Tony Spike Says:

    That was at martyn btw …not you dennis

    But tbh what i said applys to you too ……13-14 they used blue ….i think their away shorts …but i cant remember if they were plain or had yellow trim

  227. Tony Spike Says:

    And martyn mean its bollocks when you said that arsenal dont like to change ….not what you said about them in your last post

    They do like to change (in fact arsenal will change entire kits at the drop of a hat if needs must …they aint shy about using their away) ….they just have to do it hastily cobbled together like you said …..because nike are morons, … thank god puma arnt usually that idiotic

    Damn ….why cant this place have a post edit function

  228. Denis Hurley Says:

    They don’t like changing shorts Tony – that game you mention was the first time it happened in 30 years and was only because both away strips would have clashed with Fenerbahce. Presumably UEFA are stricter on shorts clashes than the PL are.

    Arsenal changing to their away ‘at the drop of a hat’ also generally stems from not wanting to change shorts too.

  229. Martyn Ping Says:

    Which is exactly what I meant. I think you’re right, UEFA are stricter – this is why the ‘European’ third shirt thing came about in a big way. These things do happen, but the clubs in question prefer them not to – there was the instance of Liverpool wearing black shorts with the home kit when they played Watford – the only time since the mid 60’s that they’d worn anything other than red, as well as Arsenal wearing anything other than white – I never said it’s never happened, just that they like to avoid it.
    Talking about clashes, what about most unusual, and possibly under rated, kits of all time? I’d like to nominate the Umbro Everton salmon and navy away kit. Not popular, I know, but it was really daring and original for the early 90’s.

  230. Jon Says:

    Barcelona dropped the integrity of the kit 9 years ago by putting a Unicef logo on the front, though in recent times you could say they don’t have any integrity of the kit at all with the various assortments of their blaugrana shirts. This season’s shower being a prime example!

  231. Tony Spike Says:

    You see i knew i had seen liverpool in black shorts once i was going to mention that next but i couldnt remember what game it was

    As for arsenal i think the fact they are willing to change their socks still shows that they are willing when necessary so i wouldnt say integrity is a major thing for them …..or they wouldnt have changed in turkey at all ….if they were supplied with a change pair ..would they use them? …i think so

    The yellow and blue kit is just as iconic for them but they will wear yellow shorts

    And as for barca …i think adding unicef was meant to be the point, they still have integrity because they are not profiting ….of course i agree that having a sponsor at all drops their integrity …but it dosnt mean they were not keeping it in mind when they chose unicef

  232. Denis Hurley Says:

    Tony – Arsenal had to change shorts in 2013. UEFA wouldn’t let them wear their home kit as it was, and both change kits would have clashed. It was the only solution, save for creating a fourth kit.

    I think the fact that they haven’t done so at any other time in the last 30 years indicates they’re not keen to do so. Puma had red shorts made for Arsenal last season but they were never worn.

    Arsenal change socks because games never go ahead nowadays with teams in the same socks. Given red socks was historically part of the Arsenal look, it’s not a big change. Off the top of my head, Real Madrid are the only team I know that wears a change kit rather than wearing a different sock colour.

  233. Martyn Ping Says:

    Memory may be playing tricks again, but I thought I’d seen a picture once of Real in blue shorts – would’ve probably been the Kelme era.

  234. Tony Spike Says:

    But still …changing an entire kit rather than change shorts still counts as willingness to change …just because its changing an entire kit dont make em entirely unwilling to change just unwilling to change shorts i suppose………but tbh i didnt know puma had even given them the option and i didnt know UEFA hadnt, so i guess im wrong

    And i could swear i have seen real in change shorts at some point too but i think i might be thinking of valencia so i didnt mention it

    On another topic i was thinking of all the times when teams have either created a set alt shorts in the same colour as the other kits shorts, example …..england 2004 ….a pair of blue …a pair of white ..and a pair of silver for the away

    Now the silver ones where different designed to the white ones but not by much …..and they looked white at a distance …..i know because i bought a pair em to go with the home top because i thought they were the home alts and i like all white england strips

    They were labeled as such in the shop

    Wasnt till i got them home i realised they were silver

    This kind of thing brings my piss to a boil, the colour looked so similar they might as well have used the alt homes rather than creating a new pair

  235. Tony Spike Says:

    Oh …and when i say they were silver but looked white at a distance, i mean they are kind of reflective coloured …..sorta like the stripes on a hi vis vest

    You put em in the sun you cant tell they are not white

  236. Martyn Ping Says:

    Or how about Chelsea having white socks for the home and third kit this season that are only different in trim (blue for home, black for third)? I know this is one of Denis’ irritants, but it IS rather pointless.
    Mentioning Barca earlier, I think their transformation from integrity to commerce has been rather alarming. OK, the first sponsor to grace the famous shirt was a charity, so fine. But now we have an airline on the front, electrical manufacturer on the sleeve, and the Unicef logo tucked away on the back, almost as an afterthought. Sad, very sad.
    Re Real Madrid alternative home shorts, I think it would be mid 80’s, Hugo Sanchez era, Kelme supplier. They were a metallic, almost denim blue, and I’m pretty sure came from the away kit of the time. Thoughts, anyone?
    You’re right though Tony, Valencia usually switch to white and have never been shy about doing so. Speaking of the Italian teams, only Milan I think have avoided it. Juventus have switched between black and white in the same season, and I’m positive Inter wore white shorts with the home shirt as recently as the early 00’s – Ronaldo and Zanetti era.

  237. Denis Hurley Says:

    Milan haven’t avoided it all Martyn?

  238. scott grimwood Says:

    Inter had white shorts with their home kit during their centenary season of 2007/8. I believe it was their original kit.

  239. Jon Says:

    Milan frequently wore black shorts (and socks) whenever there was a clash. I’m sure one season they had black shorts as the first choice but soon switched them back to white.

  240. Denis Hurley Says:

    Milan have had seasons where black shorts and socks were first choice.

    White shorts/black socks is my preference but in the early 90s they had white shorts and socks for both home and away, changing to black when required on the home.

    The only times I recall them wearing white shorts with black shorts or socks were against Manchester United in the 2006-07 CL and Arsenal a year later.

    When Inter wore white shorts and black socks in 2007-08, it meant that AC wore the rarely-seen comb of black shorts/white socks in their ‘away’ fixture at San Siro.

  241. Martyn Ping Says:

    A-ha – so another one to tick off ‘integrity of kit’.
    Going back to the ‘what constitutes a clash’ – Werder Bremen played Borussia Monchengladbach today, with both teams in their home strips – so it was green with white sleeves/green shorts and socks vs all white with a green and black bar on the shirts. You could tell the teams apart, so it just about worked, but it seemed a bit bizarre, especially when Gladbach have a perfectly acceptable (and newly unveiled) black third kit.
    AND ANOTHER THING…Tony, check this one out :

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/08/dark-red-v-dark-green-massive-color-clash-in-2.-bundesliga.html

    Still think I’m mad?

  242. Jon Says:

    I have to admit that Nürnberg-Düsseldorf game is a bit of a headache to pick the teams out. Fair enough if Düsseldorf wore that kit against a team in “normal” red, but against a dark shade of red it is a bit problematic.

    Haven’t they got a third kit? I’ve known teams in the German league to have three kits, even if there wasn’t any real need for a third kit?

  243. Jon Says:

    It reminds me a little bit of the Aston Villa v Man City game from 2012, where Man City turned up in their navy third kit (the previous season’s away kit), which wouldn’t have been so bad in good weather conditions, but on a miserable wet afternoon it was problematic picking the two teams out on TV – even more so that Man City turned up in white shorts, rather than wear the navy shorts from the previous season which would have been more sensical.

    Even the $ky TV commentators admitted it was a clash.

    As for Borussia Mönchengladbach, I was quite surprised they wore white given the amount of white on Werder’s new home kit. I’d guess Werder will wear their away kit for the return fixture!

  244. Martyn Ping Says:

    Fortuna’s third shirt is all sky, making the decision to wear the away kit at Nurnberg all the more bizarre. Agreed about Werder, though their away kit is white so it’ll probably be the third kit (purpley blue with orange trim).

  245. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    I recall Man City wearing Orange at Villa in 2008, not particularly distinctive from memory.

  246. Stuart Bateman Says:

    Just playing my old subbuteo with my lad. Mexico 86 v liverpool in the umbro pinstripes. With the glare of the fading sunlight there was a definite clash of kits!!!!

  247. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thought everyone might like to see this :

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/09/leaked-champions-league-twitter-reveals-unreleased-third-kits-unusual-home-kit-choices.html

    It appears that a lot of the teams have switched their kit preferences for European competition – Gladbach wearing black as a home shirt is perhaps not that surprising (it was their original colours until the late 60’s), but PSG in the black kit at home? If Bayern follow their usual strategy the nice navy third will be worn at home in the group stages, which is why its listed as second choice, then back to red in the knockouts.

  248. Tony Spike Says:

    @ martyn LOL…..yes i do still think you are mad but don’t take that the wrong way,

    you see in that picture the green team has red trim and numbers its not surprising their was confusion …….numbers sponsors and trim can make up a BIG part of the overall kit colour

    you see i did originally say that when paired with red as a secondary colour green can clash with red (check what i said …..i DID say it) and i used the Brazilian league as an example if i remember correctly,

    it was in those previous examples you provided where said i didn’t see a clash, ……i have however admitted the the light levels can also be a factor ……in bad weather it might not be a good combo but in direct sunlight red vs green (bottle green or otherwise) is not a combo i have a problem telling apart

    actually ……..while we are going back to old subjects, do teams STILL change ONLY their socks like they used to in the 70’s?

    i have already given examples of this, Leeds wearing red socks with their all white home vs Chelsea and Colchester, Chelsea wearing yellow socks vs Leeds, and Man City wearing dark blue socks with their all sky blue home vs West Ham

    i have already touched on the weird colour choices for Leeds and Chelsea (and it cannot have been a clash issue for Leeds because they wore the red against Colchester too, and Colchester wore all blue in that match) but i do want to ask if this has happened in any recent games to any ones knowledge?

    specifically 13-14 season …..then i know to add them to my copy of FIFA 14 lol

    and @ Martyn again …….didnt Bayern wear a grey home kit for Europe in 1999? i seem to remember them playing in it for the final vs Man United, im pretty sure it was their European home …..looked rather smart too with the red arms

    that was an interesting season to me actually,

    United and Bayern met 3 times – twice in the group once in the final,

    they both played Barcelona so they both went to the Nou Camp twice – once in the group once in the final

    Man United drew with BOTH teams in the group stages 3-3, 2-2, 3-3 and 1-1 respectively

    and both Man United and Bayern were going for a treble when they reached the final -United had already won the league and cup and Bayern had won the league and qualified for the DFB Pokal final

    a rare example of the planets in alignment if you ask me lol

  249. Tony Spike Says:

    oh ….i forgot ..both teams had to qualify for the champions league that year too because they hadnt won their leagues in the 1997-98 season, ……and both wear red ……..truly a strange year lol

  250. Denis Hurley Says:

    I recall United wearing their white away at the Olympic Stadium, even though their home would have been okay given Bayern’s home was navy.

    They also wore white in both games against Barcelona that season.

  251. Stuart Bateman Says:

    If I recall, barca never had a third that year and both their kits clashed with uniteds.

  252. Stuart Bateman Says:

    Barcelona away was a deep orange that year.

  253. Tony Spike Says:

    from what i have seen bayern used the grey 3rd from that year as a european home …..they played in it against united and brondby, ………having a little search seems to support this idea so i dont get why united would change at bayern in the groups either

    http://content9.flixster.com/question/55/87/61/5587619_std.jpg

  254. Tony Spike Says:

    right this is what is confusing everyone

    the kit was their official third kit but they liked to use it in europe …using the white and blue kits only once in 7or 8 games …so people have christened it their european kit

    i dont know how often it was used in the bundesliga to compare but they even used the grey against Dinamo Kyiv ….who played in white for that match

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/7120009/1998_99_champions_league_bayern_munich_goals_road_to_the_final/

  255. Martyn Ping Says:

    The grey third was defined as an ‘international kit’. I can only assume Utd wearing white earlier in that years competition was due to the large areas of red on the Bayern home, though honestly, as the main colour was such a dark shade of blue it really wouldn’t have caused any sort of clash – Utd did wear their white second shorts with the away shirt in the Olympiastadion, meaning all navy vs all white avoided any clash, slight or otherwise. As for the Kiev game I believe it wasn’t unveiled until relatively late in the season, so was ready for the semi final in the Ukraine. I don’t think it was ever used in the Bundesliga. The reason for the sudden and late season change is lost in the mists of time…perhaps after the win against Kiev it was considered a ‘lucky’ kit…the outcome of the final (still painful after 16 years!) perhaps explains why it hasn’t re-appeared as a Euro kit since (though the colours appeared in a minor way on the 09/10 Euro kit).

  256. Martyn Ping Says:

    If it was used earlier in the competition it would’ve been an alternative home, which is why it was described as an ‘international’ kit – Bayern did the same thing in the early 70’s, and indeed in two years from 00-02 – though that one was all red.

    The final word on red vs green – the situation I referred to was in bright sunshine – even this season this causes problems, as so many of the stadiums in Germany have ‘membranes’ in the roofs which mean there is a huge amount of light reflected on to the pitches – this season it has even caused problems with white and green.

  257. Tony Spike Says:

    i already said it was used against Brondby in the groups and also Manchester United at Old Trafford i think

    either way its in that video and pic i posted above

    and if its the stadium that is causing the light problems ………and i am just throwing this out their now before we end this then its not the fault of the kit colours ……..witch was the original debate

    yes their is such a thing as too much light ……and yes it would cause a change in tone as much as a rainy day but these are conditions manufacturers CANNOT plan for

    its up to the teams and officials on the day

    so my original assessment still stands, a red vs green cl;ash is conditional, and it is not stupid to assume they wont

  258. Denis Hurley Says:

    Small point of info Martyn – that United away kit had white shorts as the first choice

  259. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yes, I realised my error after I’d posted it – I think the overall answer is it was an alternative home kit just used in Europe.

    The colour clash thing is just me being pedantic – I’ll admit it! I know its tough for suppliers to plan for every eventuality, and colour vs colour is more obvious, and therefore more of a priority than shade vs shade on a rainy / cloudy / sunny day – another example from this season in slightly dodgy light was the latest Milan shirt – looks all black from a distance.

    Denis – my mistake – I thought black was first choice – I think it was because of the match v Arsenal in the cup when Ryan Giggs scored that solo goal wearing black shorts.

  260. Denis Hurley Says:

    Black were worn more often given the amount of teams which had red shirts and white shorts.

    Ironically, the shorts and socks worn in that cup semi-final were the home alternatives

  261. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Denis, The unitedkits.com website say that White/Black/White was the change kit and all white was the variant.

    W/B/W being worn at Aston Villa, Charlton, Nott’m Forest, Middlesboro & West Ham. But all white only worn at Liverpool.

  262. Denis Hurley Says:

    They’re probably going on frequency Andrew – I’d almost be certain that I have the copy of Shoot! with a pic from the launch and it was all-white. I’ll check there now.

  263. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just checked in True Colours Volume 1 and it says in there that black was the first choice…John?

  264. Denis Hurley Says:

    I’ve tried posting a link to a pic from the launch but it won’t let me post for some reason, John is sorting it

  265. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Denis you can only fob us off for so long, it didn’t happen did it?

  266. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    First time there has ever been a shorts clash at Old Trafford for a Man U v Liverpool game???

  267. Denis Hurley Says:

    Liverpool wore all-white there in 1998-99, Matt.

    Here is the 1997 Man U away kit launch pic Andrew: http://www.prideofmanchester.com/sport/photos/mufc-kit97a.gif

  268. Denis Hurley Says:

    Liverpool wore all-white there in 1998-99, Matt.

    Here is the 1997 Man U away kit launch pic Andrew: http://imageshack.com/a/img538/912/SDgUmJ.jpg

  269. Denis Hurley Says:

    Here is that game in 98 (which was oddly played on a Thursday), Matt – http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/steve-mcmanaman-of-liverpool-in-action-during-thefa-carling-news-photo/1279042

  270. Martyn Ping Says:

    The talk of the weekend is short clashes – the aforementioned Man Utd v Liverpool situation (and if New Balance didn’t produce an alternative pair, then why didn’t they wear the shorts from the third kit…?), as well as Everton v Chelsea (likewise), and Barca v Atletico (both teams in full home colours). The latter situation has come up before. Differentation in all three cases is not too bad, I’m being picky, but I’m not the only one! I personally think alternative shorts / socks should be mandatory. They do seem to adhere to it in Germany, but some do slip through the net! And re. the Man Utd 99 away kit – I saw that launch pic when I was searching myself – I think between the launch and its first use there was a switch. Not the first or last time that happened.

  271. Martyn Ping Says:

    And what do people think of the Ipswich third kit situation? It was unveiled as orange at the end of last season, was registered with the FA, then they ran out of stock so have had to do ANOTHER orange kit in a different template, which Ipswich can only sell 10,000 of because of a teamwear supply clause!

  272. Denis Hurley Says:

    I think you’re slightly wrong, Martyn – it was last season’s away kit, rather than a strip unveiled at the end of last season? Don’t think this one is being sold at all.

    Re Everton-Chelsea, I think Chelsea wearing blue shorts would have made the situation worse.

  273. Martyn Ping Says:

    It was registered as an away kit last season to be carried over as a third for this – but a lack of stock means they’ve had to issue a new version based on the same colours (as the colours had already been registered with the FA). This seasons away kit is dark red and blue stripes – pointless, in other words, so the orange is effectively the away kit. It can be sold but only in numbers up to 10,000. Probably be done as a limited issue for season ticket holders or something like that.

    I think Chelsea should have used the black shorts from the third kit. Wouldn’t have been a great solution but I hate to see same short colours. Its just me being picky! I don’t even know if they have an alternative away short selection this season anyway – red would work, as its a trim colour on the home and away shirt – this would also be an effective antidote to Everton’s colours, plus similar situations moving forward. Bayern’s new away shirt was unveiled with white shorts but an alternative navy pair has been used, and will probably be the first choice throughout the season.

  274. Denis Hurley Says:

    You’re confused on the 10,000, Martyn – that’s the minimum order adidas will take, so it’s unlikely to be put on sold.

  275. Denis Hurley Says:

    *on sale

  276. Martyn Ping Says:

    A-ha – sorry, misunderstood. Still a silly situation though, isn’t it?

  277. Tony Says:

    saw Bournemouth wore their 3rd pink shirt at Norwich for no proper reason other than promoting it

  278. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Martyn, Shorts clashes are not an issue for referees. I have never in 15 years as an official had a situation where a shorts clash has caused a problem. When I started as a Ref, on the parks and council pitches, both sides would regularly wear black shorts and socks, we had to clamp down on the sock clashes but shorts are not a problem.

  279. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Sorry, some referees might not see it as an issue, but others might. It’s not necessarily a shorts clash but an overall clash. And more importantly, it affects supporters much more than the officials who are closer to the action. Fans see an abundance of similar colours across the pitch and that creates a clash.
    For example here: http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76984000/jpg/_76984359_andreasweimanngetty.jpg

    Although Villa wearing their home at Stoke was bad enough, the fact that they at least changed their shorts removed the issue of there being red/Claret and white all over the pitch. With white shorts that would have been far worse for spectators to view from the stands. It’s about time that (and tv viewers) was taken into consideration much more than what the ref thinks who will always follow specific incidents at a much closer distance.

  280. Martyn Ping Says:

    I’ll let Bournemouth off for the pink kit at Norwich because its for cancer awareness, so if they wear it everywhere away this season, clash or not, then I’m all for it.

    Villa wearing alternative shorts at Stoke is exactly what I mean – white shorts = problem; claret shorts = no problem. I wouldn’t say any of it is essential, its just me – I prefer no element of a kit clashing, and alternative shorts / socks have been used for many iconic club moments down the years. As mentioned by John in TC Vol.1, Man Utd’s black pair is just as recognisable with the home shirt as the white.

  281. Denis Hurley Says:

    Does anyone disagree with me that Chelsea wearing their blue shorts would have made things more troublesome? I recall West Ham wearing white/sky/sky at Man City in Carling Cup in 2013 and there were a lot of complaints.

  282. Jon Says:

    The worst thing about West Ham wearing white/sky blue/sky blue in that League Cup fixture was that they had a perfectly good black third shirt available. When the two sides met again on the final day of the season West Ham wore the black jersey!

  283. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    I agree about that West Ham strip at City, Denis. However, yet again there is ref who thinks it looks finest close quarters, and it probably does. They should have little or no input.

    In modern football with clubs having to declare their strips before the season begins, I can see no reason why this can’t be taken a stage further and they list the strips they will wer for each away game. Any issues can then be addressed well in advance.

  284. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    *fine at close quarters

  285. Martyn Ping Says:

    Agreed, Matt. A little pre-planning goes a long way! Personally I think, as I said before, that Chelsea’s alternative away shorts should be red.

    What does everyone think of last nights CL games? Although I can understand Man Utd wearing white shorts with the new third shirt against PSV, Juventus at the Etihad with the third shirt paired with the HOME shorts seems a little bizarre, especially as the trim doesn’t match. Can anyone explain that to me as it seems strange?

  286. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    I find it astonishing in the era of digital and HD TV that any spectator finds a shorts clash an issue though I don’t disagree with the point about Villa’s use of claret shorts being sensible.

    This might seem contradictory, but I like that Man United change to black shirts at Everton, it is easily done as they have already black shorts for the away kit, and I feel there is more integrity shown buy doing this this, than for example, Arsenal switching from red/white to yellow to avoid a short/sock clash.

  287. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    It’s not really the tv viewers that matter that much, though they should be a consideration, it’s the fans who pay to watch a game. Shorts clashes create problems when viewed within a kit.

  288. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think you and I are fighting this one together Matt! I think when it is done within a sensible level, then its fine. As touched upon earlier, Man Utd changing to black shorts at Everton is sensible – likewise Everton should change to blue at Man Utd. I do find it bizarre that in England a lot of the teams don’t even seem to produce specific alternative shorts, or at least produce a pair for one of the other strips that matches seamlessly. Bayern do the alternative shorts thing, Werder Bremen will use the white shorts from the away kit when required, Dortmund use the yellow ones from their away kit, and so on. It just seems to me in a lot of cases that common sense has gone out the window.

  289. Martyn Ping Says:

    I should have said that the above case with Bayern applies to the away kit, not the home – these days if the shorts only clash (like away at Hamburg) then they will use one of the other strips, which in the case of HSV will be the third.

  290. Denis Hurley Says:

    There’s a kind of a irony in that Bayern have altered the style of their home so much but never change shorts, though I do understand how wearing white or red shorts with red shirts at Hamburg wouldn’t be ideal.

    Did anyone else notice last night that Juventus wore black shorts with white stripes – the home change set – with their third shirt rather than the black-fading-to-white third shorts?

  291. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    If they’d worn the black-to-white shorts it would have been a clash! The stripes not matching was irritating.

  292. Denis Hurley Says:

    I don’t think it would have been anywhere near a clash

  293. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    A partial one and I don’t even think they match the kit very well! Black-to-gold would have been better.

  294. Denis Hurley Says:

    That’s true. I don’t like any of those third kits with the jazzy shorts, thankfully Bayern and Real have eschewed them.

  295. Jon Says:

    Maccabi Tel-Aviv wearing yellow and blue halves at Chelski. I think some refs would have seen that as a clash even though the kit is 90% yellow

  296. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, surprising that that was allowed

  297. Martyn Ping Says:

    Re Juventus shorts – if its half black, half white then that to me is not a clash, especially with City being such a light strip overall.

    Re Maccabi – not a clash AT ALL in my eyes – the kit is a particularly fluorescent yellow so its just the effect of having a navy stripe down one side. Even just the shirts side to side wouldn’t create a clash.

  298. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    I finally caught up with the Everton v Chavski game from the weekend. Can I assume many of you on here would be critical of the Champions wearing white shorts? Cos I think it actually helped. Had they switched to the home shorts we’d have had Blue/White/White v White/Blue/Blue and that would have been an overall clash, the white shorts made it clearer in my opinion. That being said, they could have worn the black third kit and avoided all of this!

  299. Martyn Ping Says:

    My thoughts exactly.

  300. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, I said that up the page Andy – it probably seems counterintuitive but both in white shorts made it easier as it wasn’t a case of having to distinguish blue/white against white/blue (I think the socks are decoupled from the rest of the kit).

    As an aside, I think white/black/blue would have looked well on Chelsea.

  301. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Never been a fan of combinations of the same colours against each other, so year Chelsea should have worn black. Wearing white or blue shorts was wrong in this case. The wore white/blue/blue there in 06/07 and that didn’t look great either.

    I went to Carlisle v Rochdale in 90/91, blue/white/blue v white/blue/white was what both teams had panned to wear. The ref made them swap shorts to make it all blue v all white. Both teams strips were made by Ribero so only someone with particularly keen eyes in the crowd with have noticed the initials of each team on the shorts… (Ribero didn’t do badges on shorts then)

  302. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    My typing is shocking, apologies!

  303. john b Says:

    I see adidas have produced 3 different pairs of white socks for Manchester United this season? Why? Well,money obviously but anyone with any sense would just buy one pair! The home change and away socks even have red/black trim! United/adidas only had to produce a black with red/white trim 3rd shirt and could have mixed/match with the home/away shirts and socks…everyones happy apart from the money people!!!

  304. Denis Hurley Says:

    It’s awful john, isn’t it? I despair. The third has black change socks too, so they have five different pairs in only two colours

  305. Martyn Ping Says:

    Utd have previous in this though, don’t they? I remember back in the Umbro days when they had a black or white away it had its own socks, and for the late 90’s European strip that had bespoke socks too, in white. It also happened on quite a few occasions under Nike. I know the alternative home socks were usually the ones from the white away kit from that particular season, but the black ones from memory were always relative to their kit – they had a black one trimmed with white under Nike, right at the start of the contract, which could have used the home socks, but didn’t.

  306. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Man United had black socks with all 3 kits as far back as 1992/93, they had to switch from sky blue away kit ones at Villa and had a black with sky blue trim pair.

  307. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Aye that’s a great example (although it wasn’t a sky blue away kit… United in sky blue?!) and they also had them the year after with different black socks on the red, yellow & green and black kits.

  308. john b Says:

    http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J4pV-U4syBE/maxresdefault.jpg

    Soton away too,

  309. Martyn Ping Says:

    Matt,
    You’re right – I think that one was the blue one with wood grain effect on it – I would describe as mid blue rather than sky.

    In 93-94, as mentioned, they had black trimmed with red and white home, black trimmed with yellow and green away, and black trimmed with yellow and blue third. So this season is by no means the first time. Not to bash the Old Trafford club too much, I’m sure there are quite a few other clubs who are just as guilty…Chelsea for one, though back at the start of the Abramovich era the nice white away kit with the blue and black chest stripe was at least shown with blue socks which DID alternate with the home when required. Not this season though!

  310. Jon Says:

    I remember that one john b – looked like Man U used the away socks from the 92/93 away kit. That match at the Dell still had a huge kit clash however – Tim Flowers wore a green jersey with black sleeves, which had a plain black back, with black shorts and socks.

  311. Martyn Ping Says:

    The new AC Milan home kit is horrendous. The red is so dark, and coupled with grey trim makes the kit look all black from a distance…is there a reason that the red is so dark this year? If the black third kit didn’t have the bright bits on it it would be completely superfluous.

    Despite my scepticism, Leverkusen did use last seasons all red home (now the away) at Dortmund yesterday. If this seems a bit strange given Dortmund’s yellow, the large areas of black on the new Leverkusen home means there would have been a partial clash, meaning an all red solution actually makes sense. Of course, Leverkusen could’ve used the away shorts with the home, thereby avoiding a shorts clash, but actually switching to all red made perfect sense. I stand corrected!

  312. Stuart Bateman Says:

    Whilst on paper not a clash I found it hard to watch the southampton v man utd game. Southampton in black shorts and united in a black top. Southampton in red and white with utd in white shorts. Can’t think of a solution from utds kit options as ththree main colours of Southampton redwhite black are the colours of uniteds shirts

  313. Denis Hurley Says:

    United in all-white or all-black would have been better.

  314. Jon Says:

    don’t want to sound too much like a pedant, but Milan’s away kit is actually a fairly dark green, but side by side with the home kit they are both difficult to contrast.

  315. Martyn Ping Says:

    Does anyone know of a specific reason WHY the Milan red is so dark this year? As far back as I can remember it has been a relatively light shade. Is it a retro thing to tie in with the ‘St Georges’ badge (which I know is an old badge from Milan’s history)?

  316. Jon Says:

    Bit of an oddity in Scotland tonight where Raith Rovers, who normally wear navy, somehow decided to see fit to wear their dark green (with black hoops on the front) away kit at Celtic.

    Whilst on contrast the two sides were distinguishable it just didn’t make sense for a team whose shirts are in the blue spectrum to wear a green kit at Celtic?!

  317. Davidr1986 Says:

    I had the same thought when I saw that Jon, seems bizarre that they chose to wear the away kit at Parkhead

    Regarding Man Utd at Southampton, I thought black/ white/ white would have been a better choice

  318. Jon Says:

    Indeed, reminds me of the time Real Madrid decided to wear navy at Xérez (who wear blue) a few years ago, because they “did an Arsenal”…… ridiculous decision.

  319. Jon Says:

    Arsenal wearing their gold away kit at Leicester for absolutely no reason. Leicester have got an all-blue kit this season.

  320. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Burnley in sky blue shorts and white socks, Reading in royal blue shorts and white socks.

  321. Ronan Smith Says:

    Spot-on Jon. Red against blue was fine for The Arsenal last week but not this week!

  322. David Morrissey Says:

    i notice teams tend to stick to home kits in derbys barring perhaps the recent tyne-wear derbies. Arsenal seem to wear away colours in every other away game with Newcastle being the exception.

  323. Tony Spike Says:

    i was going to mention the united southampton game too

    …..whilst not technically a clash it bloody hurt my eyes to watch and once again is a demonstration on how much of an impact red trim can have on a shirt

    it was stupid to wear a combination of red white and black against another team wearing red white and black and you would have thought adidas would have taken this into account and prepared a blue third kit pre season instead of a black one

    oh wait ….i forgot ..adidas thought southampton played in all red when they supplied them

  324. Pat Brazzier Says:

    According to the Premier League Arsenal have not registered their red socks but it has not stopped them wearing them in both the Premier League and Capital One Cup.

  325. Pat Brazzier Says:

    Norwich changed to their alternative strip at West Ham United yesterday – presumably for the only reason that the Premier League allowed them to.

  326. Pat Brazzier Says:

    The whole problem with clashes lies with FIFA – Their Law 4 states – ‘the two teams must wear colours that distinguish them from each other……’ – what does that actually mean??

  327. Jon Says:

    someone should show that FIFA rule book to referees in Brazil then, because the amount of kit clashes that go on over there is utterly ridiculous.

  328. Andrew Rockall Says:

    Pat, its really very simple. You must wear kits that do not clash.

    The referee has the final decision on what is suitable. Sadly, clubs (actually more likely marketing departments) can pick and chose when they change. I would like to see a rule to say you can only change when ther is a clash, it wont happen though, money drives everything these days.

  329. Martyn Ping Says:

    Bizarre kit choices were all over the place at the weekend in the PL – apart from the aforementioned, there was Man City turning up to Spurs in the navy away strip, with large areas of navy (and navy shorts) worn by the home side. Although the two teams were distinguishable, surely City’s home kit would have been sufficient? sky blue, white shorts against white and navy. If this was still considered a clash, why not the third? that would’ve represented NO clash AT ALL.

    Norwich in the away kit against the Hammers was another one – I know green and claret are completely different colours, but only the yellow shorts created a complete contrast – with the bright sunshine over the weekend dark shirts are dark shirts regardless of colour. Surely it would have been the best opportunity for Norwich to wear that hideous third kit?

    And Arsenal against Leicester in the away kit. Errrr, why? against an all blue team the Gunners home presented NO clash WHATSOEVER. Changing to an away strip with large areas of navy, and in a dark gold to boot, really defies belief.

    Finally, I like that Sunderland away strip – the two tone green effect is really unusual and unique. adidas have done a similar thing with the Ingolstadt away, just in two tones of blue. One of the best teamwear templates this season I think.

  330. Denis Hurley Says:

    It’s just a part of football now that teams will change despite there being no need. We’re even seeing it at the Rugby World Cup – Uruguay and Romania changed against Australia and Ireland respectively yesterday

  331. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Yet the South African’s never seem to change v New Zealand when their jersey is a very dark shade of green.

  332. Martyn Ping Says:

    I long ago stopped wondering about Rugby Union – strange changes, no change shorts, and away strips at home…Wales also wear their away shirt (usually at home) when a new one comes out, despite the fact that they very rarely play a team with red as a primary colour! England aren’t immune to doing that either, and it goes on all the time in the Premiership.

  333. Denis Hurley Says:

    And Bayern do it in the Champions League ;)

    In rugby they’re not ‘away kits’, they’re alternatives. While football went away from the tradition of the home side changing in the event of a clash, rugby didn’t.

    The changing for autumn internationals is a relatively new thing, no more outrageous than what happens in football.

  334. scott grimwood Says:

    Everton in all blue when surely they should be in their green third kit?.

  335. Martyn Ping Says:

    Haha, Denis! Bayern sometimes play in the away kit at home because the third kit is actually classed as the ‘International Kit’ ie. alternative home.

    I thought RU teams called them away kits? I’m sure Wales’ anthracite, grey, navy and yellow kits (all the Under Armour ones) were classed as away?

  336. Jon Says:

    In international rugby union the home side change strip if there is a clash of colours, hence why its often referred to as a “change strip”. More often than not Wales wear their change strip for some autumn internationals as some kind of marketing exercise. We never need to change kit for the 6 Nations, but may be required to wear a change kit in the World Cup if we play the likes of Tonga or Japan.

    However at league level the visiting team is usually ordered to change their kit in the event of a clash, but I guess it varies from country to country.

  337. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thought people might find this interesting, as we have discussed it here in the past:

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/09/germany-football-kit-history-1965-2015.html

  338. Tony Spike Says:

    Personally i think its teams perogative to choose what colours they wear

    Arsenal want to wear yellow at everton they can

  339. Denis Hurley Says:

    Atletico Madrid had to wear their away at home to Benfica tonight as Benfica’s red home and white away clashed.

  340. Denis Hurley Says:

    Also, just looking at Moenchengladbach-City highlights, Joe Hart’s dark purple was a bad choice against all-black

  341. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, I saw that Denis – from a distance it was very close.
    Just saw an article about Sevilla – apparently their 3 kits were considered too close to Juventus’ home so UEFA made them come up with a fourth kit. Yes, that’s right – not the supplier, not the club, but UEFA. Personally I think this madness has to stop. I think its time for UEFA / FIFA to issue general guidelines about colour combinations. Back in the 90’s there didn’t seem to be half as many instances of this sort of thing. It could work – for example, if your home shirt is solid royal blue, then you are allowed to use any colour other than from the same spectrum – so navy, purple, sky and mid blue are banned – similarly, if a team has stripes, halves, quarters or hoops, then neither of the two colours are allowed on either the away or third as a main colour. This would still give suppliers a huge spectrum to choose, and would also encourage unusual choices, which I’ve always enjoyed (provided its not brown…).
    Of course, the cynic in me remembers that in the 90’s third kits were not often used because away shirts usually covered various eventualities, and suppliers these days pick ‘close’ colours PRECISELY so they can have a third kit that sees plenty of use. Unfortunately the whole process is now driven by commerce rather than common sense.

  342. Martyn Ping Says:

    Some more bizarre kit choices in the PL at the weekend :

    1. Man City v Newcastle – not on the face of it a clash, but the blue on the Magpies strip this season, coupled with the solid white back, meant that only the black shorts and socks avoided a clash.

    2. Sunderland v West Ham – again, not ostensibly a clash, but the large areas of white against a very pale sky blue shade meant that only black shorts prevented confusion.

    3. Aston Villa v Stoke – this one was more bizarre – especially when both teams wore white shorts. Only the large areas of white on the Potters shirts avoided a clash. More bizarre when you consider Stokes perfectly good black and green away kit.

    I know I’m being pedantic, but in some of these cases away / home strips have been worn previously to avoid clashes – the old red v claret thing comes up again and again – but if West Ham had to wear their away strip (which wasn’t an ideal solution) then why didn’t Stoke? All I ask for is consistency!

  343. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Did anyone else have an issue with Referee Mike Dean’s choice of strip for Swansea v Tottenham?

    Tottenham were in Sky/Navy/Navy the officials were in Jade/Black/Black, on more that one occasion I got mixed up.

  344. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, I spotted that too, very odd choice.

  345. Al Says:

    Well, we know Mike Dean secretly supports Spurs so maybe he was doing his best to look like them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoBmf26gPs

  346. Martyn Ping Says:

    Some interesting leaked adidas international kits coming out…Not only the new Germany home / away, but new kits for Japan, Russia, Bosnia and Belgium. If its follows that these will be the new templates for the club sides (in full or part) the as a Bayern fan we could be in for a treat. Bravo adidas!

  347. Davidr1986 Says:

    Talking of Adidas, I spotted that Scotland have started using a new training kit, it is just the standard Tiro 15 range, I had just assumed that this was just a temporary training kit before the new Euro 16 style stuff came in as this happened 2 years ago where a standard team wear training wear range was used for about 2 games prior to the bespoke condivo 14 range being delivered.

    However last night an email arrived in my inbox last night showing that this new training range was available to buy which didn’t happen with the temporary range 2 years ago.

    It got me wondering whether the Scotland Adidas contract has been downgraded to the same level as the Northern Ireland and Wales Adidas deals.

    Scotland have/ had the high level Adidas deal with bespoke training range colour ways and the players using Adizero kits rather then the commercially available Climacool kits and also on the kits themselves, we had the usual differences with the Adidas logo placement being on the back of the shorts and socks with ‘ALBA’ being embroidered on the front of the socks where NI and Wales have always been issued with team wear style training wear and players using Climacool kits with the adidas logo placement on shorts and socks being on the front, the same as any other ‘second tier’ Adidas supplied kit.

    It would be a major disappointment if Scotland were to be out down this path of having more generic Adidas kits and training wear, both 2013/15 kits were fantastic and the bespoke Condivo 14 training range colours were fantastic (I own far too much of it!)

    I think the new kit will be released within the next month or so, it’ll be interesting to see what it’s like and where the short and socks Adidas logo’s are placed!

  348. Jon Says:

    I’m intrigued to see what Adidas come up with for Wales now we will be taking our place in France next summer. I’d love to see a recreation of the 1984-1987 home shirt with the horizontal striped bands on the front.

    I wonder what colour we’d have for the away kit, hope it’s another yellow strip!

  349. ciaran Says:

    The latest clash from the gaa today. This one takes the biscuit!

    http://www.sportsfile.com/id/1066222/

  350. Martyn Ping Says:

    Haven’t seen any leaked Wales Euro 2016 shirts yet, Jon. Having seen a lot of the others its anyone’s guess – adidas seem to be creating unique designs for each country. I think a new version of the yellow and green away shirt from the early 80’s would be cool, though.

  351. HArry Says:

    That GAA clash is the worst yet!

  352. john Says:

    Ciaran that is the worst clash I have seen. How can a referee allow teams to play in the same colours? There seems to be no rules in GAA regarding colour clashes and neither team will give in and change.

  353. Jon Says:

    I’ve been looking at that Footyheadlines website to see if our new kit design has been leaked yet, quite a number of new Adidas designs (on what appear to be 3D model renders) have been shown already.

    I hope they don’t give us an unusual choice of away colour as they’ve done already with some teams. Apparently Germany’s next away shirt is grey and green, and Belgium are set to have a sky blue (!) jersey with the tricolour on the front arranged horizonally.

    I’d love to see a yellow and green kit, or even have a black strip with red, white and green trim. Just anything but white really.

    And as for that GAA photo, that is an absolutely shocking clash, how was that even allowed? Even if I was playing on the pitch I’d have great difficulty picking out a team-mate.

  354. Denis Hurley Says:

    Par for the course, sadly. And it was a fairly big game too, a county final.

    On Twitter, I asked a reporter who was there if it was difficult: https://twitter.com/KieranShannon7/status/653673997134131200

  355. Martyn Ping Says:

    Like that new Belgium away – it takes inspiration from cycling jerseys so is a fresh take on away colours. Not sure about the Germany away – will have to see it in the flesh first – apparently it’s inspired by street football, though I’m not quite sure what they mean by that. Spain away is stunning, Russia away classy. On the whole, good, interesting choices so far. As for Wales, following adidas’ logic with the other away shirts (being inspired by something from that country), I would probably take a guess that it’ll be green and white horizontal halves (hopefully with a dragon on it!) or solid green. The home, if I had to guess, might well take inspiration from 1958. We’ll see.

  356. Ronan Smith Says:

    The latest GAA clash as Denis has already stated is nothing unusual unfortunately. But there is hope….down in Kerry, two teams who both play in black jerseys with an amber hoop (Austin Stacks and Dr Crokes) recently played each other in a County semi-final and they BOTH changed – Stacks to an amber jersey with a black hoop and Crokes sported a white jersey with an amber hoop. Common sense – hopefully a change in trend…..

  357. Denis Hurley Says:

    Crokes and Stacks have pretty much the same strip though and play fairly often so they have a plan in place at least. Most competitions mandate that both change, as far as I know.

  358. Denis Hurley Says:

    For any rugby union fans – I have (better late than never) made a site detailing all of the shirts worn in the World Cup since 1987: http://www.internationalrugbyshirts.com

  359. Martyn Ping Says:

    Great work Denis!
    Interesting to see that in rugby, at least, teams generally avoid using away strips altogether if they can help it – no superfluous third kits there!

    Also, I still think the New Zealand kit is possibly the most instantly recognisable kit in all of world sport, with the possible exception of Brazil in football. Even people with only a passing knowledge of RU know who the ‘All Blacks’ are.

  360. Martyn Ping Says:

    In RU my preference is for Wales – interesting that although their kits generally last two years when a WC is not on, they instantly bring out a special WC kit which supercedes the existing strip, rather than just adding the tournament logo to the one they have. Is this a regulation? because I notice that all of the Six Nations participating teams have done it this time.

    Back to Wales – personally I prefer the Reebok kits – some of those were stunning (apart from the one with black shorts, which just seemed odd).

  361. Denis Hurley Says:

    The needless changes are seeping in with the last two World Cups, sadly.

  362. Martyn Ping Says:

    Strange goings on in Germany. Werder Bremen have just unveiled a new fourth shirt which is white, the same as the third shirt (last seasons away). The only difference is it has a red sash instead of green trim (red and white are Bremen’s city colours, used as a home shirt briefly in the 70’s). The third shirt? discontinued with immediate effect. I know Bayern did something similar a few years ago when the orange and white away kit started the 13/14 season but swapped with the white and green when Oktoberfest began, but Bayern never made any secret that a new shirt was on the way – the timing was deliberate to tie in with the festivities. Bremen / Nike seem to have just decided on a whim to bring this one out.

  363. Jon Says:

    Very odd that, I know Werder had issued that first white away/third shirt in 2013/14, so it’s strange how come they decided to introduce this “reverse Peru” shirt now, instead of marketing it as a third shirt at the start of the season.

    On the subject of sashes, also not sure why Rayo Vallecano decided to wear their dark grey with pink sash kit at Barça when the white with red sash home kit was a far more sensical option (in terms of contrast). Much good it did them too as Neymar scored 4 in a 5-2 win

  364. Denis Hurley Says:

    Interesting to see Palace-West Ham played with both teams in blue and red – West Ham’s away of course is a very light blue and the hoop is claret so there was no real issue and the navy third wouldn’t have worked, obviously.

    Still, though, can’t say I recall them wearing blue at Selhurst Park in the past.

  365. Jon Says:

    I remember West Ham wearing claret and blue at Selhurst Park in the 03/04 season, mainly because Palace had their “Ronald McDonald” kit which was red and blue stripes from the front, but bizarrely had a navy blue back.

    And with West Ham’s away kit being plain navy that season, they wore the home strip – they really could have done with a third kit.

  366. Martyn Ping Says:

    I would have said that the home would have been fine – the Palace strip this year is mostly blue, so with white shorts the home would’ve been fine.

    Back to Bremen, Bayern wore their white away strip (with its change white shorts) at the Weserstadion, against Bremen in all green with white sleeves. Wasn’t ideal, and Bayern’s home, or failing that, third, would’ve been better. Just to prove that bizarre kit choices go on in Germany too!

  367. Denis Hurley Says:

    Even with the shorts and socks differences, I’d have been asking West Ham to wear Palace’s away here, as the claret and navy would have been confusing too: http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/danny-granville-and-hayden-mullins-contest-the-ball-during-news-photo/3341824

  368. Jon Says:

    It wasn’t ideal was it?

    I’m surprised Bayern wore their away kit for no reason at Werder Bremen. Mind you there’s loads of bizarre kit instances in the Bundesliga (wearing away kits at home is a common thing)

  369. Nick Durham Says:

    Look at how baggy kits were in 03-04!

  370. Martyn Ping Says:

    The ‘away kit at home thing’ is a common occurrence in the Bundesliga, agreed, but usually with a reason – for example when Bayern unveiled the white and green kit in 13/14 to tie in with Oktoberfest, the first game was at home, so they wore it to unveil it. They still had to get permission from the DFB though. The other instances are a bit more obscure – a few seasons ago Wolfsburg switched their home colours from green to white when the season was under way, and also changed their home short colour one year quite a long way into the season…Generally teams unveil new kits at their last home games in Germany, which are sometimes away strips. The instances of ‘special kits’ are far more common in Germany than in other countries too. Bremen have changed their badge over Xmas for over a decade now (their regular diamond shaped badge becomes a tree shape!), and quite a few teams have Xmas kits. Dortmund even brought out a new shirt just for the derby match against Schalke!

  371. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Things were more relaxed in the Football League in 03/04, the PL seem to get more shirty about clashes.

    Anyway Sky Blue v Royal Blue with Red isn’t a clash!

  372. Denis Hurley Says:

    I wasn’t saying it was Andrew, more of a comment on how different shades of the same base colours can avoid clashes.

  373. Denis Hurley Says:

    Interesting how Arsenal always change against Blackpool, for instance, yet the Arsenal goalkeeper often wears orange http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20151013/arsenal-v-bayern-munich-matchday-strips

  374. Davidr1986 Says:

    Keepers wearing similar colours to outfield players in a real pet hate of mine, last season Rangers wore a ridiculously close shade of blue gk kit when outfield players were wearing royal blue, there was a horrendous one in the Football League the other week, I think it was possibly Northampton vs Hartlepool when Hartlepool (think it was them anyway) had a fluo yellow away kit on and the Northampton gk wore a fluo green kit, was barely distinguishable watching the highlights! The gk in orange and outfield in red is becoming rather too common now, as Denis rightly said, if Arsenal would change at Blackpool then why is it appropriate for their goalie to wear orange! Another annoyance of mine is prevalent at Arsenal now where Cech has been issued with s/s shirts with l/s compression underneath, I can’t abide goalkeepers who do that!

  375. Jon Says:

    I remember 11 years ago Jens Lehmann wore a light blue kit whilst his Arsenal team mates wore (royal) blue in the Charity, erm sorry, Community Shield match. That wasn’t particularly clever, neither was that Basel keeper wearing burnt orange with burgundy shorts at Middlesbrough during the latter’s amazing comeback in the UEFA Cup.

    Back in my day, all goalkeepers wore green, except if Plymouth were playing……. didn’t cause any clashing problems whatsoever!

  376. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, it has got rather daft hasn’t it? Green is most logical, or all black, all yellow, or in the case of Sepp Maier, sky blue and black. Goalies wearing purple, red, and orange just seem wrong. I remember that horror show of a GK strip that Asics made in the mid 90’s – orange with faded diagonal stripes (shudder).

  377. scott grimwood Says:

    Newcastle in their third kit but with the away kit white sock’s.

  378. Jon Says:

    Arsenal tonight decided to wear navy at Sheffield Wednesday for no reason whatsoever!

  379. Tony Spike Says:

    as a wednesday fan im happy …it confused them enough to lose, as a kit fan im confused as to why arsenal needed to change

  380. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think that one will run and run…You can look at it a thousand different ways and it still makes no sense. Especially the fact that Puma had to produce a bespoke pair of turquoise shorts and socks because the anthracite clashed with Wednesday’s black…but…hello? Do Arsenal not play in red?

  381. Davidr1986 Says:

    Not only was it a pointless change, it was a change to an absolutely rotten kit, I’ve not liked any of Arsenal’s Puma kits so far

  382. Martyn Ping Says:

    Last seasons home and away were nice but I don’t like this years offerings – gold trim as an afterthought on the home, FAR too dark a shade of gold on the away, pointless third because of the above. But being honest, Puma have always been a bit ‘marmite’, even as far back as the 80’s / 90’s – particularly in Germany, Werder Bremen and Eintracht Frankfurt ended up with ‘jaunty angle’ stripes and even in Werder’s case similar to lightning bolts…typical examples of early 90’s excess. And don’t even get me started on the striped shorts they did for Werder one season!

  383. Martyn Ping Says:

    I have just seen the most bonkers kit I think ever – 1.FC Koln’s new ‘carnival special edition kit’…What does everyone think?
    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/10/1-fc-koln-2015-karneval-kit.html

  384. tony Says:

    That’s truly awful and the players must be ashamed to have to wear that ..

  385. Nick Durham Says:

    Arsenal’s Puma kits so far have been uniformly poor. Not a patch on those that preceded them, especially the 12-14 home strip.

    I don’t see the point in this season’s gold kit – it’s so similar to last season’s away, so why not keep that one?

    As for this campaign’s cup kit, well, there aren’t words to fit to express how awful it is.

    The worst thing about Puma shirts is all the unnecessary detailing which clutters their designs and detracts from the better features.

  386. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think that comes down to the ever increasing size of tournament logos – with the Puma symbol above it makes the whole effect very cluttered. I think the Puma kits look good on paper, less so in reality. But there are exceptions – VfB Stuttgart have 3 nice, classy kits made by Puma. I think the trouble with the Arsenal ones is the ‘more is more’ approach. That away kit – OK, make it gold, but does it need extra trim? No. Does it need that large diamond pattern? No. I remember back in 2002 when Nike changed the colour of the Gunners away to metallic gold it had minimal trim, just navy bars down the side, and worked really well.

  387. Jon Says:

    Newcastle’s kits this season from Puma are awful, not to mention impractical – a (practically) white away kit when the home kit is 80% white is just plain stupid, and with having a navy third kit, what will they be wearing at West Brom??

  388. Ali Says:

    Hi, first-time poster!

    Agree with the consensus on Puma shirts, over-designed and ill-fitting.

    Quite interested to see what Ajax do in the Europa away to Celtic, considering the away strip is green. Could use last year’s away, but that’s not something they’ve done in recent times. It will also be hard for both to wear change kits, since all of Celtic’s feature some form of green.

  389. Martyn Ping Says:

    Agreed. Newcastle has always been a tricky proposition for away kits, as they seem to avoid red (possibly because of Boro and Sunderland both wearing it) which would be a good solution otherwise. I think the old Norwich style used in the early 90’s was a good, solid solution which didn’t necessitate a third strip. Why not bring it back? I’ve always thought the very idea of black or white away strips for the toon is daft, but kit suppliers will persist in doing it!

  390. J. Says:

    Sevilla in neon lime green vs Man City in light blue/white? Very difficult to watch.

  391. J. Says:

    Haha, actually the other way around even…

  392. Davidr1986 Says:

    The yellow away kit Newcastle had in 2013/14 was very nice! The orange, white and Navy one they had the previous year to that was also a great kit

    I agree that it is madness for Newcastle not to have a kit in a bold colour such as yellow, orange, green or blue etc which would provide a complete contrast for them, too often Newcastle have had 2 change kits which could both easily clash with either white or black

  393. Jon Says:

    Newcastle did have a red away kit of a fashion in 2012, when they had a burgundy kit, though they seemed to favour their fluorescent yellow third kit more often in the event of a colour clash. However I think they seem to have avoided wearing red ever since a certain FA Cup match in 1972 that often gets repeated when giantkillers are discussed.

  394. Denis Hurley Says:

    The 2006-07 away was a shade of red too, though that was a kind of a tribute to the hooped effort of 1995-96

  395. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Personally I would like to see Newcastle to return to the halcyon days of 1975-1976, Pale yellow shirts with a green v-insert collar, sky blue shorts paired with orange socks with yellow & green trim.

  396. Martyn Ping Says:

    Strange goings on in Germany over the weekend – Werder Bremen released a new white and red third kit to replace last seasons white and green, which was apparently to be used straight away, THEN they play Dortmund in the discontinued white and green third. AT HOME. I can think of no reason behind this strange sequence of events. There would be no ‘double clash’ scenario with BVB, so why bother?

  397. Martyn Ping Says:

    Bizarre clash from the world of RU : Exeter Chiefs at home to Leicester Tigers. All black with minimal white trim vs all dark green. Only areas of white on the Tigers’ strip and white sleeves prevents the two strips from being nearly identical.

  398. Martyn Ping Says:

    So, most of the Euro 2016 strips are out. I think this tournament may be the best dressed in recent memory – the adidas offerings in particular (with the exception of Ukraine and Bosnia, based on slightly older templates) are stunning.

    Really like the new Germany home, still haven’t decided about the away; Really like both Belgium kits – stunning; Really like the Spain away but less sure about the home; Really like the Russia away but not so much the home; Really like the Denmark home but not the away; Both Sweden kits nice; Not really sure about Northern Irelands; Wales away a bit pedestrian, and again based on an older template(s).

    Overall, great effort adidas – traditional homes and unconventional aways inspired by unusual things – and why not? Though the buzz online seems to be about the size of the short numbers!

  399. Davidr1986 Says:

    Some interesting work by Adidas, my favourites are Germany home, Spain away, Denmark away, Belgium home & away, Wales away and Spain away

    However I cannot describe my disliking for the Germany away, I think it’s awful, I think what makes it even worse in my eyes is the fact that it’s replacing an absolutely beautiful kit!

  400. Martyn Ping Says:

    Agreed – the ‘Flamengo’ away was one of the best ever, everything about that one was class. I can sort of see what they’ve tried to do with it, but maybe its the wrong colour – grey green just looks a bit…sludgy.

    Interesting response in the media to the Spain away – you like it, I like it, but some elements of the media have called it one of the worst kits ever. Er, why? an away shirt that has a definite link to the home, while still being highly original.

    What are TC contributors feelings about the adidas ‘side stripes’? I have always liked the sleeve applications but the need for increasingly prominent tournament logos means they are getting shorter and shorter. Placing them on the side of the jerseys means they are restored to their former glory, and if it’s a team with the same stripe colour the effect is quite striking – I can only imagine how nice an all red Bayern shirt with white stripes going all the way down the side and onto the shorts will be.

  401. Denis Hurley Says:

    I like the side stripes, look very well on Spain, and I’m glad that dark socks are back

  402. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, agreed Denis. Hopefully all that ‘one colour strip’ nonsense is over now. Not much coverage about Germany being in black socks for the first time since the late 50’s, but coupled with the plain shoulders it gives the whole strip a classical, timeless feel. The only thing that jars a bit for me is ironically the World Cup winners shield – is it really needed?

    But it is good to see Spain with royal blue shorts and navy socks. I think adidas have listened to the fans and, at least on the home strips, have dialled back the more radical elements to leave strips that we purists can enjoy!

    What do you think of the Spain away strip, Denis?

  403. Denis Hurley Says:

    It’s not my favourite-ever shirt but I don’t completely hate it – probably nostalgia for the Czech and Russian shirts at Italia 90!

  404. Martyn Ping Says:

    It is a bit ‘early 90’s’, isn’t it? It brings to mind some of the templates from that era without being too OTT, IMO. The journalist that called it ‘Paella vomit’ was just being rude!

  405. Denis Hurley Says:

    ‘Normal’ journalists, i.e. those who aren’t proper kit aficionados, always have knee-jerk reactions, sadly

  406. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, I thought the reaction to that all yellow Newcastle strip (the season they got promoted a few years ago under Chris Hughton) was a bit rediculous, too. I liked it, but apparently it was ‘insipid’ and ‘disgusting’ and one of ‘the worst kits ever’…according to the press, anyway.

  407. Tony Spike Says:

    i havent seen many of the euro 16 kits yet but i do like the adidas designs, especially the new trend of putting the stripes on the sides

    its not exactly traditional but somehow it retains the identity of the brand and yet dosnt over power the strip like having it on the shoulders does, ……not that i dislike the stripes on the shoulders or anything, having stripes on shoulders (3 for adidas and 2 for puma) takes me back to a lot of the classics and is as much a football thing for me as anything

  408. Tony Spike Says:

    oh can i also add that Arsenal changed at wednesday because they were at away and used their “cup strip” not their away because its supposed to be their cup strip not their third

    so because reasons basically

  409. Davidr1986 Says:

    I agree with Martyn it is nice to see Spain back in royal shorts and navy socks, as I’m (just) under 30 the only time I can ever recall seeing Spain play in that look was against Scotland at Hampden circa 2010-2011 when their home socks were red, as were Scotland’s so the away navy ones were paired with the lighter blue shorts

    Probably taking things totally off topic but I feel the need to moan about what my own club (Hibernian) have been doing for the last few years which has greatly annoyed me, for the past few seasons except 2012-13 our main goalkeeper kit has been a coloured shirt, lime green since 2014, purple the year before that and yellow in 2011-12 paired with black shorts and socks which again is fine, but annoyingly if a side we are playing use dark socks our kitman has felt the need to make the keeper wear the regular home white shorts with white socks which looks awful in my eyes, why not just change the socks as required? I just don’t think GK kits look right with coloured tops being paired with white shorts and socks and by and large it’s rare to see, Newcastle 2006 is one of few examples I can think of where the kit was green/ white/ white. What makes the above worse is that by changing the gk kit to white shorts it more often than not creates more of a clash with most teams in the league using white shorts too!

    This season there has been a couple of glaringly bad kit choices by Hibs, our home kit is bottle green and white sleeves with white shorts and white socks and out away kit is all purple trimmed in lime, at Queen of the South away (who are in all blue this year) we wore purple and the two teams were barely distinguishable, surprised it was passed by the referee and a few week later we wore our regular home kit vs Raith Rovers who play in navy with white sleeves, white shorts and navy socks, again it was barely distinguishable with our green being so dark these days, the only way to really differentiate between the teams were by looking at the socks!

    We really need to use last years white away shirt paired with this seasons home shorts and socks or just release a new third kit as in the darker winter games it’s really going to be a nightmare when we play teams in blue and navy

  410. Davidr1986 Says:

    Just to add about gk kit moan we also have an all yellow GK kit at our disposal and haven’t used it in anger since pre-season 2014! It is definitely still a ‘current season’ kit as in the club shop it’s still on sale and has been updated to the alternative ‘Marathon Bet’ logo used this season

  411. Tony Spike Says:

    Their was a time when i was younger when all goalkeeper kits were paired with the shorts and socks of the kit the team was using so im used to it, but then again their was a time when they would wear tops that didnt have any of the clubs logos on them, or were made by different manufacturers ….like they were some kind of mercenaries lol

    Never did understand why keepers need bright colours though, whenever i played at school i always wore deep navy blue, because i found people could pick out the goal better by quickly using me as a reference point

    Dark colours dont draw the strikers eye as much i learned, …..and i learned that from lev yashin before you ask……..but i soon found that if i wore dark colours the opposition wasnt as able to hit accurate long range or one time shots and my life got easyer

    Didnt seem to ever bother campos though lol

    And just to correct myself i just found out manchester uniteds away kit from 80-82 had adidas stripes down the side …so when i called it a new trend i guess i was wrong

  412. Tony Spike Says:

    And no …im not saying i know lev yashin ………ionce read it in a book before anyone asks lol …….just being clear because their is always some numpty that will lol

  413. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Has anyone got Lev Yashin’s phone number?

    I want to borrow his black keeper’s top.

  414. Martyn Ping Says:

    Think it was a superstition thing. He wore all black, I believe I’m right in saying to intimidate the opposition, as did Fabian Barthez years later. A few other GK’s have worn black as a tribute to Yashin. I read a few years ago that Petr Cech preferred bright GK kits because he thought that THAT intimidated the opposition, by making his tall frame look even bigger. Wasn’t Yashin also nicknamed the black cat?

    The new Germany GK home strip is black, but paired with white shorts and socks to avoid a clash with the home. That in itself raises a grey area, because I think all black would look better.

    Tony, I remember a green, yellow, or sometimes sky blue GK shirt being worn with the home shorts, as recently as the late 80’s (Dave Beasant in ’88 springs to mind). I don’t approve of that idea, but I agree that GK strips should be one colour. I can remember Schmeichel’s from the mid 90’s that he hardly ever changed was mostly green, and lasted from memory for about 3 years too! From memory when he did change it was for a white and black one with Umbro’s psychedelic lightning on the front.

  415. scott grimwood Says:

    Ipswich generally had a red change goalkeeper’s shirt during the 1980’s adidas and early umbro era. I think the first yellow goalkeeper top they wore was in 1991/92.

  416. Martyn Ping Says:

    Bit surprising given Town’s near neighbours…?

  417. scott grimwood Says:

    I personally have not a problem with yellow. Ipswich had a yellow and blue away kit from the late 1960’s up until they switched to adidas in 1977. I actually wouldn’t mind going back to it, although I would be in a minority.

  418. Martyn Ping Says:

    I like the late 70’s / early 80’s orange and black Ipswich away kits personally – red always works quite well too.

  419. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Can anyone confirm if I am right in thinking FIFA banned/tried to ban countries from having a depiction of their flag on their kits? Cos the Belgium away shirt has it as a chestband

  420. Denis Hurley Says:

    Is it just a FIFA thing for the World Cup, Andy? i.e. it’s okay for Euros?

  421. Martyn Ping Says:

    Tried to ban, probably. Germany have carried some representation of the flag colours in every kit since the mid 80’s, if only as a small element of trim. Spain have also had their flag on the back, under the collar, a few times, and even quite recently used it on the shorts instead of the badge. So no, I don’t think so. Also, if you’re being pedantic the Belgium away kit has the stripes arranged horizontally whereas the flag is vertical.

  422. Martyn Ping Says:

    On another subject I read today that Barcelona’s away shirt next season will be purple and pink. Purple? Correct me if I’m wrong, but what colour do you get if you mix red and blue…? And if the home kit is (as has been rumoured) a return to blue and red stripes, what do they wear against, say, Chelsea? Oh yeah, the third will be teal, so that’ll be the one then. Please Nike, stop doing UTTERLY SUPERFLUOUS KITS PLEASE.

  423. Denis Hurley Says:

    Martin – countries are allowed to have a small flag like the one you mentioned Spain having, but other similar representations are clamped down on, though I’m not sure why. I’d imagine that’s why Germany’s 2014 kit had so much red on the chevron.

    I’ll dig out the regulations later

  424. Denis Hurley Says:

    Lot of info here: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/51/54/30/equipment_reg_26032010_en.pdf

  425. Tony Spike Says:

    Few comments to touch on

    I dont think it matters what colour gk top a team uses i think it matters more when the home and away kits are in a rivals colour

    I also remember liverpool and bruce groballaar (or however you spell it) having a yellow top with the red home shorts and socks as a gk kit, like i say it dosnt bother me when they do this, its a tradition to me thanks to my 80s/90s upbringing

    Lev yashin was called the black cat, he wore black to be intimidating but has also said he did it to not make the offence aware of his position easilly, so it was also practical

    If i remember correctly david seaman also had black kits too, his 94 kit with grey stars almost qualifys as world war 2 dazzle camo ……the jagged stuff they used to paint ships with

    Germanys chevron was supposed to be a flag it had black and gold in it too denis it just wasnt that noticable, but like martin says they usually do this but i dont think regulation is the reason why i think its personal preference

  426. Denis Hurley Says:

    Tony – that’s my point, the black and gold were tiny, almost unnoticeable, so it couldn’t be accused of being a representation of the flag.

  427. Davidr1986 Says:

    Today against Aberdeen, Hamilton Accies wore a the French away kit (with added printing of sponsors and a Hamilton badge) as a tribute after what happened in Paris, whilst I suppose the notion is fairly admirable, I’m not sure I like teams other than those in the local area to the atrocity doing these kind of things

  428. scott grimwood Says:

    Martyn Ping I had heard Barcelona were going to have a teal away kit next season.

  429. Denis Hurley Says:

    Interesting to see the reaction to new Scottish kits, they’re fairly different

  430. Jon Says:

    There’s been quite a lot of negative reaction to the pink away kit, that’s for sure. The home kit having white sleeves on it seems to be getting some stick too.

  431. Davidr1986 Says:

    Having just saw the new Scotland Adidas kits, I can’t describe how disappointed I am with them, the tartan effect would have been quite nice if it was a plain blue shirt, the white sleeves completely jar the look of the kit, sadly there is a complete absence of any red in the kit at all, so it’s back to blue shirts, white shorts and blue socks, not only is the absence of red disappointing but the omission of ‘ALBA’ anywhere on the kit is a pity, something we had carried on the kits somewhere (usually socks) for more than a decade now

    The away kit is pink and black, the kit doesn’t look horrendous, it’s not great but not brutal. Again sadly the kit seems to omit ‘ALBA’ on the kit anywhere.

    Earlier I posted wondering whether Scotland had been ‘downgraded’ by Adidas and it’s still hard to tell as the shorts have the Adidas logo on the rear of the shorts like all other top grade Adidas teams but unlike top Adidas teams we have shoulder stripes and the Adidas logo to the front of the socks with no team specific stitching on the socks at all so I think we pretty much have been downgraded which is a shame.

    Adidas are my favourite kit manufacturers so it’s a massive disappointment to have these kits especially when everything from the 2013/15 range was fantastic, right from the kits through to the training range hit the spot perfectly, fully bespoke kits with team coloured training wear to now have everything look so generic and ‘teamweary’. Had such high hopes having saw kits like the German, Spanish, Swedish, Danish and Belgian kits which are all great.

    Fingers crossed for a good qualifying campaign so Adidas think we are worth bothering about in two years time!

  432. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    I think FIFA are clamping down on sponsorship, Scotland getting away with advertising Alba stereos for ten years has been scandalous.

  433. Martyn Ping Says:

    Scotland home and away kits are team wear – the home has the same template as Ukraine home and Bosnia away. Also the sleeve stripes will probably be carried forward on team wear contracts – side stripes on main ones. Could also be a short term solution with a new kit to come out late next year for the WC qualifiers. That’s happened before.

    Re flag colours on strips – I find it bizarre that it’s ‘banned’ when they’ve been used on strips for decades – Germany, France, Holland and Italy have all at some point or another used their flag colours as integral parts of the strips. Italy’s latest away kit uses it in a very obvious way!

  434. Denis Hurley Says:

    Manchester City wore their all-luminous yellow third kit tonight and Joe Hart wore a more conventional all-yellow kit, but still a horrendous clash

  435. Jon Says:

    I was just about to say the same thing Denis! What was wrong with the purple kit?

  436. Denis Hurley Says:

    I’m really at a loss!

  437. scott grimwood Says:

    I thought Man City’s normal away kit was dark blue?.

  438. Davidr1986 Says:

    Martyn:- the short term kit thing is wishful thinking, the kit has been advertised here as being for the next two years! Sadly in reality it’s a downgrading by Adidas from bespoke to teamwear which is a shame

  439. Martyn Ping Says:

    The new Wales away looks like a team wear kit too, so don’t think its particular to Scotland – we’ll have to see what the Wales home comes out like to be sure.

  440. Jon Says:

    The new Wales home shirt is the same design, but basically is plain red with white collar and adidas stripes.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xlEjv2Jvvzc/VkG68nwCohI/AAAAAAAAwp8/meKquh1THdk/s1600/Wales-Euro-2016-Home-Kit%2B%25282%2529.jpg

    We’ve gone for the classic, no nonsense approach, even going back to white shorts. I reckon if the shirt followed the Northern Ireland and Bosnia design with having a horizontal stripe in a slightly darker shade of red and outlined in white, it would have almost perfectly mimicked the classic 1984 adidas kit.

    However I do think the previous shirt with green trim worn in the qualifiers was a better shirt. I’m still not entirely convinced with the away kit yet, I reckon it’s probably going to be a “grower”…

  441. Denis Hurley Says:

    The thing about the Wales one is that it’s sufficiently close to the 1958 strip to get away with calling it a tribute

  442. Martyn Ping Says:

    It’s still a teamwear kit though, isn’t it? If Wales were a main contract I think the potential would have been great – I personally like it when green is used on the shirts (I’m thinking of that first Lotto shirt amongst others). While this could be called close to the 1958 strip, it would be even closer with ‘side stripes’. I’d also like to see Wales play with red shirts, white shorts and green socks – the RU team did this a few years ago and it looked great.

  443. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Wales/adidas missed a trick. Rather than Scotland, the Welsh should have had white sleeves! A reprisal of the classic 80-84 jersey as worn by Elis James here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34781339/what-josh-widdicombe-learnt-from-the-simpsons-friends-and-father-ted

    As a Tottenham fan, I am told I shouldn’t like this design, I bloody loves it I do (as they say in Wales).

  444. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Rochdale fans have designed next year’s kits. Also able to vote on which one they want:
    http://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/article/6-3-1-project-finalists-revealed-vote-now-2823871.aspx

  445. Martyn Ping Says:

    Saw the Bundesliga 2 match between Heidenheim and Freiburg last night – both playing in Nike team wear kits, Heidenheim in the ‘chest tram line’ one and Freiburg in the ‘fading checks’. I really like that checked one – it won’t work in every colour scheme, that’s true (Bradford’s version looks awful), but for Freiburg it looks great. Paired with black backs, black shorts and red socks, the overall effect is of a dark, but not too dark, strip. I think criticism of this team wear thing is getting a little OTT – surely the clubs can select which template they want? So finding one to appease the fans shouldn’t be too difficult. Freiburg for their part always seem to go for the daring option – stripes, hoops, checks, faded snow effect – all used since the contract with Nike began.

  446. Denis Hurley Says:

    Martyn, my biggest bugbear with teamwear – Nike’s, anyway – is that the designs are generally limited to two colours.

    Arsenal will be wearing that awful third kit at Norwich tomorrow.

  447. Davidr1986 Says:

    Another Nike teamwear bugbear is that any effect on the front isn’t repeated on the back best example being the fade one from last year, looked nice in Barca’s version but generally looked stupid on teamwear due to the totally blank back

  448. Denis Hurley Says:

    I’ve written a piece explaining why I’ve no problems with Norwich City’s set of kits this season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXzVk6DBgD4

  449. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, fair comment Denis – I accept it doesn’t work for every team, but if it’s a team that uses two colours most of the time (like Freiburg, as mentioned) then its not a problem IMO. I actually prefer the team wear templates to some of the main contract ones!

    Several bizarre strip choices in the PL this weekend – Watford in their away kit at Villa – explain, please?
    Arsenal at Norwich – third kit…?
    Newcastle in the white and teal away kit at Palace…?
    And finally, why did Stoke not wear alternative shorts at Sunderland? Surely their white home pair with the away kit would have been better than black shorts against a team in black shorts?

  450. Denis Hurley Says:

    Sorry – severe copy and paste fail from me in comment 448 – the link should be http://www.corkcitykits.com/norwich.html

  451. Martyn Ping Says:

    Interesting, Denis. I know what you mean about that Coventry brown kit – brown isn’t really that bad, if done in the right way – for example, St Pauli, who are so anti establishment as to feature a skull and crossbones as an alternative badge, and want Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Hannover thrown out of TV negotiations for breaking the ’50+1′ rule, have always proudly donned brown. Sometimes its a deep brown, sometimes its bronzey, but its still brown. Pink is a colour I always like to see, too. Why not? its bright, its eye catching, and it has featured in some really interesting kits, both in football and RU (Cardiff Blues and Stade Francais to name just two). Its also a colour so ingrained in Juventus’ history that it regularly appears as an away choice.
    But the point of the article – I have read the comment about Norwich’s strips’ main problem being the size of the sponsor, and I’m inclined to agree. I like that third kit, as its different, and as far as the home, I’ve always liked halved and quartered strips. The problem is that the Aviva logo, and its yellow back ground, bites too much into the green. Its a similar problem away. Norwich and Peterborough and Lotus/Proton perfectly remedied this by having dark logos that would work on both green and yellow, but the Aviva one causes difficulties against a green, or half green, background. This is why the third is arguably the best kit, because it avoids this potential hazard. I wonder if Aviva would consider a black or dark navy version of their logo?

    Should we start a new debate off the back of this? We’ll call it : ‘Kits that have been called disgusting but were actually nice’.

    As a supporter of German football one that always pops up is the mid 90’s VfL Bochum – the one with large rainbow print on one side of the shirt. Garish, yes. Eye catching, certainly. But horrible? Not so sure.

  452. scott grimwood Says:

    Norwich won’t have to worry about Aviva after this season as they are pulling out aparently

  453. Martyn Ping Says:

    Any word on who will take over?

  454. Tony Spike Says:

    Well i am one of thosr guys that LIKES sheffield wednesdays 1984 grey and purple away AND birminghams “paintbox” kit martyn

    So i agree with that topic title

  455. Martyn Ping Says:

    Actually, Wednesday have had more than a few kits down the years that could easily fall under that category – I remember the orange one from the mid 90’s when it came out divided opinion, but I liked it, and it still looks good now – just like Derby’s maroon one in the same template. But when faced with the prospect of updating such a well known kit as Wednesday’s suppliers sometimes have to come up with new ideas.
    That Birmingham paintbox kit…mmm. Not sure about that one – certainly memorable! Same problem with Birmingham – all blue, blue and white shorts, blue penguin, stripes…and who could forget the ‘Germany’ away shirt?

  456. Ali Says:

    So, Ajax ended up wearing their away kit against Celtic, but with black shorts/socks, and…it wasn’t that terrible.

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/stuart-armstrong-of-celtic-break-through-midfield-during-the-uefa-picture-id498848882

    Speaking of terrible, this was on TV at the weekend, courtesy of A League:

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/roy-krishna-of-the-wellington-phoenix-heads-the-ball-through-during-picture-id500011290

  457. Jon Says:

    That clash from the A-League is a shocker, even moreso considering the referee thought it was a clash, but got overruled by a colourblind A-League administrator.

    I felt that Whitehawk’s choice of change kit at Dagenham & Redbridge in the FA Cup wasn’t ideal either, magenta shirts at a team in predominantly red. Rather daft considering their home kit is red. Veggie Green Rovers wearing their lime green kit at Oxford wasn’t particularly ideal either in all honesty.

  458. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Breaking news!!!!

    How did Thomas N’Kono get away with wearing this?

    http://www.iconicphotogalleries.co.uk/sport/photos/gary-lineker-england-vs-cameroon-world-cup-1990-italy_a03551.aspx

    Also there was a lot of Yellow on Jim Leighton’s shirt v Brazil

    http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/world-cup-finals-turin-italy-20th-june-brazil-1-v-scotland-news-photo/79036477

  459. Martyn Ping Says:

    That Oxford game was a shocker – only United’s navy shorts avoided a total clash.

    The Watford / Norwich game wasn’t a problem – Norwich wore green shirts with yellow shorts. Still a little tricky from certain angles, so personally I’d have used the home shorts. What did you think of that one, Denis? I know you blogged it recently.

    Juventus played Sevilla last night in that ill matched combination of third shirt with gold trim with home shorts with white – this is the inherent problem of the old ‘two shorts from two strips being the same colour’ – I personally think the ‘half and half’ third shorts would’ve been fine.

  460. Davidr1986 Says:

    A real annoyance clubs having so many items in the same colours, Adidas are having a particularly bad year for that, do Juve not have about 3 pairs of black shorts this season and Man Utd having 3 pairs of white and red socks, needless

    I thought the Watford v Norwich game was fine from a clash point of view, the further into the season we get, the more I like the Norwich kits, the massive sponsor gap even bothers me less!

  461. Martyn Ping Says:

    Watching Dinamo Zagreb vs Bayern last night, on a night game, the all navy Zagreb strip vs the all red Bayern actually clashed. Don’t laugh at me on this one! The non contrasting trim on the FCB strip meant that it was two dark teams against each other, and while it was just about fine to follow on TV, I can’t help thinking that Bayern should’ve worn their all white away kit.

  462. Denis Hurley Says:

    @Martyn – Norwich in their away at Watford looked fine, but wearing the green shorts would have eliminated any confusion which may have existed.

  463. Tony Spike Says:

    You mean the one birmingham revived this year martyn

    Its memorable but not to my taste ……….i do however class the 97 orange wednesday shirt as a classic …i loved it, …..i also love the umbro kit set we had between 92 and 96 …….all those pinstripes ….including the confusing white one we wore with the yellow away shorts at newcastle

    I do however also have a taste for the chocolate colour coventry wore in the 70s …….they had a talbot version but i preffer the none sponsored one

    I like that template in general though and it looks good in the other colours they made it in

  464. Jon Says:

    I see Newcastle wore their third kit at West Brom – probably the most contrasting of their three available kits to wear at the Baggies, but still a slight clash given the kit was navy with a bit of white (and pink) on the front.

  465. Denis Hurley Says:

    Saw that, Jon – wouldn’t really have a massive problem as there was a lot of contrast. Southampton in home kit as West Ham wasn’t great, I felt.

  466. Davidr1986 Says:

    Finally caught up with Festive period highlights, why Southampton didn’t wear green at Upton Park was beyond me! Also have Man Utd ever worn their third kit as it was originally intended ie black/ black/ white?

  467. Denis Hurley Says:

    They did David, against CSKA Moscow in the Champions League.

  468. Andrew Rockall - Statto74 Says:

    No problems with Villa wearing their home kit at Sunderland today, compared to Soton wearing their home shirt v West Ham, Sunderland’s shirt is white with three red stripes, whereas Saints shirt is predominantly red with three white stripes.

  469. Denis Hurley Says:

    Funny you should say that, Andrew – in FM2016, Liverpool wear their home kit away to Sunderland!

  470. Jon Says:

    The weird thing about Villa wearing claret and blue at Sunderland is that they wore their away kit at Southampton earlier this season.

    God knows what they’ll wear at Stoke

  471. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Jon, the Saints shirt has far more red on it.

    In the last few years they have always worn Claret shirts & shorts at Stoke.

  472. Dan Says:

    Last weekend saw my team (Birmingham) wearing a dark blue shirt, host Brentford who opted to wear all black!

    It was also raining and quite a dark afternoon.

    Why Brentford didn’t just wear their red/white shirt as they had in the reverse fixture i’ll never know!

    http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/10A31/production/_87454186_bluesbees.jpg

  473. john Says:

    Man City are wearing their 3rd (green/yellow) kit at everton tonight but without their black socks

  474. Davidr1986 Says:

    Thought city would have went for black socks with Everton wearing white socks!

  475. Jon Says:

    Strangely, Liverpool are wearimg white at Exeter City in the FA Cup, when you’d have thought they’d be wearing the black third strip.

  476. Davidr1986 Says:

    Am I just being pedantic in thinking that Liverpool should be in grey/ white/ white tonight?!

  477. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    If the opposition are in red & white, Liverpool should wear yellow. FACT!

  478. Martyn Ping Says:

    Don’t think there was a huge problem with that one – Exeter’s strip had mostly red and black on it anyway, so all white away was fine. All black would’ve just confused matters (not that that has been unusual this season so far!).

  479. Jon Says:

    I don’t think black shirts would have confused problems of worn with white shorts and socks. But that’s just my opinion, it’s the shirt colour that matters.

    Also notice Hibernian were wearing purple at Raith Rovers, whose navy shirts with white sleeves would definitely have clashed with their home kit. But purple still isn’t ideal against navy to be honest.

  480. Davidr1986 Says:

    Hibs should have worn last years white away kit, no idea why we haven’t registered it with 2 dark kits

  481. Davidr1986 Says:

    Having seen a picture of the game it doesn’t look too bad and better than the game at Starks Park earlier in the season where we turned up in green with white sleeves/ white/ white and they had navy with white sleeves/ white/ navy with white stripes down side, this time round we were in all purple and they had navy with white sleeves/ white/ white which provided a hell of a lot more contrast than last time! Still us is white/ green/ white would have just been best situation!

  482. John Devlin Says:

    Denis Hurley says:

    “Liverpool seem to be on a quest to Maintain The Integrity Of The Kit (hereafter known as MITOTK) as they haven’t mixed kits at all this season – wearing the black shirt would have meant doing this due to the FA Cup’s stricter kit rules.

    That said, the all-white is fairly okay as Exeter’s shirt is far more red than white, but when a better option exists it should be used.”

  483. ciaran Says:

    Watching Match of The Day now. Is there any point in Norwich wearing their 3rd kit away to Stoke?

  484. Davidr1986 Says:

    Probably just so it gets used at some point I’d imagine! They pretty much themselves stated it was a superfluous kit when it was released!

  485. Jon Says:

    It’s undoubtedly the most superfluous third kit of all time!

  486. Tony Spike Says:

    Had to share this one …..it was bloody confusing

    i was wayching a match between west ham and manchester city from 1970-71 the other day (long before my time ….but i like watching them …football seems simpler …no sponsors ..no surplus trim ….caked in mud …brilliant, takes me back to playing at school)

    Anyway it was united in claret and blue with white shorts and i think white socks vs a city side in sky blue white and black on a surface that can be classed as swampland at best

    Not only did united clash with city they clashed with the mud …..it was like watching a set of floating sky blue arms and white legs playing man city lol

  487. Andrew Rockall - Statto74 Says:

    Is that the one where Joe Corrigan get beaten from 45 yards?
    Ronnie Boyce scored?

  488. Jon Says:

    Sounds like that very match Andrew, I remember seeing that goal on many an own goals and gaffs tape over the years, pitch looked like a quagmire.

    Also, I think West Ham always wore their home kit at teams who wore blue (regardless of shade) at the time, as their away kit was sky blue with two claret bands. But does their kit really clash with sky blue, given that we don’t always associate Arsenal’s kit as clashing with any team that wear white? It’s pretty much debatable.

  489. Denis Hurley Says:

    There was of course a famous incident at Villa Park in 2009 Jon, when Villa had to switch to white because the ref felt that their home clashed with West Ham’s sky-blue away!

    Man Utd wearing white shirts and black shorts at Anfield today – I was going to say it must have been a while but it turns out they did it last season too!

  490. Jon Says:

    I remember that one – think that was down to Villa’s shirts having sky blue “raglan” sleeves on their shirt, and West Ham’s shirt having claret on the top part of the front of the shirt.

    I noticed that too about Man U’s kit…… that match cured my insomnia ;)

  491. Jon Says:

    Also, after watching a repeat of Match of the Day today, Bournemouth’s keeper wore an all-black kit whilst his team mates were wearing their home kit (which has a plain black back). That’s quite a bad clash in my opinion!

  492. Denis Hurley Says:

    Just thinking about Man Utd – are they the ‘best’ when it comes to dealing with clashes?

    They always seem to wear the most appropriate kit, i.e. never wearing away when not needed or third when away would suffice, and they almost always have alternative shorts and socks and use these correctly.

  493. Tony Spike Says:

    It wasnt so much that the hamners clashed with city it was more a case of cos of the mud all you could see was their arms so they did

    A case of weather plus kits = hard to tell

    The shorts and socks being the same didnt help matters either

    You could tell who was who but it was difficult ….and the brown pitch blending with their shirts made it hillarious lol

  494. Tony Spike Says:

    And yes andrew rockall it is “that one” …i have it on an motd best of 70s dvd

    Hillarity ensued lol

  495. Davidr1986 Says:

    I agree with Denis that Man Utd are probably the best at dealing with clashes, if anything you could say too good as mentioned in other discussions on here that having multiple pairs of socks that are all white and red or red and black is totally needless! Off the top of my head this season it’s 3 pairs of white and red socks (albeit on one pair it’s a very bright red) and 2 pairs of black and red socks (again the shade of red being slightly different)

  496. Denis Hurley Says:

    Just came across this today, the four-year diary of an Uhlsport gloves salesman – http://theglovebag.com/pages/uhlsportdiaries/ – I found it quite interesting

  497. Denis Hurley Says:

    Incredible how David de Gea was allowed to wear this against Southampton on Saturday https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZljyuuWIAAfmxu.jpg:large

  498. Davidr1986 Says:

    That’s a crazy choice of kit for De ages, it’s not like he’s short of options!

  499. Jon Says:

    He’d have been better off wearing the blue kit, as he did against Norwich.

  500. Jon Says:

    Spurs wearing white at Colchester, I’d have thought they’d have worn the purple third kit?

  501. Denis Hurley Says:

    Was thinking similar when I saw it today, Jon

  502. Jon Says:

    Also of note, West Ham wore their navy third kit at Liverpool in the FA Cup, yet in the corresponding league fixture earlier this season, they wore the sky blue away kit.

    Must be a marketing ploy, or getting some mileage out of the navy kit!!!

  503. Denis Hurley Says:

    Probably just following the current trendy thing of designating the third kit as the cup away.

    Anyone see Barcelona v Atletico Madrid? Far from ideal http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/sergio-busquets-of-barcelona-competes-for-the-ball-with-news-photo/507731460

  504. Jon Says:

    Indeed!

    Last season Atlético Madrid would have got away with their home kit due to it being more white than red, but this season’s shirt has far more red on it than any other Atleti home shirt in history. They should have retained last season’s seldom used grey kit for this fixture at least.

    In the past they have changed kit on occasion at the Nou Camp, notably 2014’s title decider where they wore yellow.

  505. Denis Hurley Says:

    It was one of those games where Atletico creating a red shorts clash would have been far more preferable than what happened.

  506. Jon Says:

    Bournemouth wearing what appears to be magenta at Palace, hardly ideal.

    In fact, none of their three kits this season are suitable for use at Palace in my eyes.

  507. Davidr1986 Says:

    Last night Hibs changing from green to purple against a team in blue, I hope after this season the club realises if we play in dark green we can’t also just have a dark away kit, only having bottle green and purple kits this season has resulted in a few nightmare clashes especially against teams in navy or blue. Last nights game being against Morton who play in blue and white hoops the home shirt would have been fine if we had change socks however Nike would only produce us a custom shirt and not custom shorts or socks so there are no teamwear colour matching socks available! I hope Hibs ditch Just Sport Pro when the contract ends in 2017, would love Umbro, Adidas or Macron instead

  508. Tony Spike Says:

    heres something off topic ….cos ya know, talking about clashes is well and good but i feel like a change and …theirs no topic, or at least not one anybody cares about

    and im in the mood to share with some peeps what no one i know personally gives a rats about, and ……i need information, and you guys `are my best source

    you see i have a bit of a fascination for the little details,

    i dont know if anyone else feel the same?

    but i mean, whenever i create a kit for a FIFA mod, i feel i must put the correct kit details on their to date it correctly

    but their are a few things its hard to find the info on

    for example,

    climalite, climacool, techfit, formotion, are all names you have probably heared of, but i didnt know their were differences till a few days ago, ……climacool is used on replicas for example

    but its difficult to find out when this became the norm, john himself says some shirts were made of climacool material, so when did they become the “replica” standard instead of “matchday” standard

    its also difficult for me to find info on numbersets, most pics of any pre premiership standard numbers are wrong, (some kits on ebay have white borders round the numbers when video shows this didnt exist on machdays ….at least not on the ones i have seen anyways)

    its the same with nike and puma ect, …..but im dedicated to making and collecting a nice collection of logos and numbersets fonts and …..even tags and labels, ….yes ..tags and labels (sad i know …..even i know that) just so my kits are perfect

    tell ya its frustrating though …that anything pre 2010 is hard to get pics of lol

    anyone ever think about devoting a section to info on this, i would be in my element lol

    but no …seriously …i need as much info as i can get my hands on lol

  509. Tony Spike Says:

    actually here is another interesting question

    arm patches

    i believe (but correct me if im wrong …im going on my own rough research) that the football league introduced them in 1989-1990

    but i have found evidence that they also created what i had believed was something introduced in 1993-1994 by the premiership

    gold sleeve patches for the winners

    http://liverpool-shirt.narod.ru/1990-00/1990-91/home/leag/90-1-3-hls-f.jpg

    http://liverpool-shirt.narod.ru/1990-00/1991-92/away/leag/91-2-14-ass-bad.jpg

    i have seen pics of liverpool wearing these patches, but i dont know if

    A) this was an end of 89-90 season thing or if they were worn in 90-91 like is now traditional

    and B) if this was carried on by Arsenal in 91-92

    and most importantly C) …if this was even true (the site looks like one of those fan sites, the same replica kit salesmen that sell the numbers with the borders on i previously mentioned ….i mean judging from the green behind the patch in the second pic i would say its the 1991-92 kit ……….a kit they wouldnt have worn them on because arsenal were champions)

    only thing i am certain of is it didnt happen with leeds (cos premiership obviously)

    so far i havent found any evidence that it was used in any other seasons though

    i have my panini cards for example but those contain pics from both seasons for arsenal and a lot of the pics are from before they won ….they would have worn the patch during 91-92 leeds season or at the end of the season depicted …and of course they are often unclear …pic quality wasnt as good or the cards are degraded somewhat

    and its difficult to tell what season the liverpool kit is from since well…..its the same paint flecked candy shirt in both 89-90 & 90-91

    so yeah, ….any info?

    im feeling unsure cos of the flimsyness of the info (it seems like a scam or some moron showing of his fake because he thinks its genuine)

  510. HArry Says:

    You’ll like Unitedkits.com, Tony. Loads of little details on there.

  511. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, it’s brilliant.

  512. Tony Spike Says:

    Well i do often find stuff on their but a lot of the time the info is elusive at best or just plain missing because THEY dont know

    for example

    In 89 -90 the football league introduced the sleeve patch, but i have found a picture of a gold version apparently worn by liverpool in 1990-91

    http://liverpool-shirt.narod.ru/1990-00/1990-91/home/leag/90-1-10-hss-sl-2.jpg

    now unfortunatly the same site shows the green away kit from 92-93 wearing them as well…..the year arsenal were champions …….so its less than reputable

    But i would like to know if anyone knows

    A) if this isnt a fake thing
    B) was it only for a year

    The only team i know that wouldnt have used them is leeds ( cos …premier league) and i have my panini pro set cards but they are unclear

    The pics were taken over both the 90-91 & 91-92 seasons and whilst arsenal have both the kits they used in those seasons the pics arnt exactly in HD or the same exact colours as each other

    and lwhilst iverpool have the same kit for both years …. the liverpool pics could have been taken in 91-92 …..thus …all are inconclusive

    So yeah ….any help appreciated anyway lol

  513. Denis Hurley Says:

    I thought those patches came in 90-91, no?

  514. Denis Hurley Says:

    Also, I don’t recall any gold version for champions until Premier League came in.

    Arsenal added a ‘League Champions 1990-91′ scroll under their crest for 91-92 but these things were left up to the clubs

  515. Tony Spike Says:

    test post? …thing dosnt want to work for some reason

  516. Tony Spike Says:

    No it was 89-90 i think, i mean im not 100% on that but im pretty sure i read it on the top of a page in the actual true colors book somewhere

    If i didnt i know i definitly read it somewhere ……most likely on historical kits or somewhere like that lol

  517. Tony Spike Says:

    and i too believed that gold patches were a premier league thing, first worn by Manchester United in 1993-94

    but this is something i cannot NOT research

    embroider is different though, thats definitly a club thing

  518. Denis Hurley Says:

    Picture of Liverpool celebrating 1989-90 title, no patches http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/1441334/original/?width=511&version=1441334

  519. Tony Spike Says:

    Well that settles that one then

    But i still cannot find any evidence in support of the gold ones lol

  520. Denis Hurley Says:

    No, I reckon that might have been some bad reaction to a wash

  521. HArry Says:

    The football league sleeve patches were introduced in 1990/91.

  522. HArry Says:

    Stoke have unveiled a one off all white third shirt for their game at Bournemouth on Saturday. Apparently their home shirt clashes. Really? Apparently it won’t be released as a replica.

  523. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, you’d think they could get away with the home, I must say I do have a penchant for hastily-released emergency third kits.

    Something I’ve written about Arsenal’s adidas kits, might be of interest: http://museumofjerseys.com/2016/02/11/arsenal-the-adidas-years/

  524. Jon Says:

    Great read that Denis, enjoyed reading the bit about Arsenal’s FA Cup shock in the bruised banana kit the most. Every time I see that kit I see Mickey T’s free kick fly into the top corner :)

    On the subject of Stoke’s third kit, I’m surprised they hadn’t done this last season whilst their kits were still branded as Warrior for the visit to Crystal Palace. They wore the home kit there and it was just about passable, so compare that to Bournemouth (whose kit is more black than red). Still, it’s a functional shirt that alleviates any doubt of a kit clash.

    Maybe someone should whisper the idea to Palace, who have worn the home kit at Stoke, when maybe they should have stockpiled some of last season’s away shirts and ironed the new sponsor’s logo?

  525. Martyn Ping Says:

    Tony,
    I feel your pain! I found myself conned a few years ago by an e-bay seller who offered a printed version of the 14-15 Bayern away shirt – illustrating the official Bayern font (used since 11-12). When I received it it did in fact have a red version of adidas’ WC ’14 font. I wasn’t impressed. If I was to do the same for FCB I would have to be careful because the font in Germany is particular to each club; Bayern have stuck to a reasonable level of consistency but have changed from time to time. It really annoys me when I see classic shirts being sold with the wrong font on them.
    As regards to gold badges the first time I was aware of it in England was in the PL. I didn’t think the FL did it. As stated, clubs very often added text beneath the badge; I know Forest did it when they won the European Cup in ’79, even though it had no relevance in the league at the time. Also one off kits and special trim is a nightmare when doing FIFA or other games. Auction sites can be very unscrupulous as we all know, especially with regards to prototypes being offered as the real thing.
    On the subject of Adidas and their various shirt types, you don’t seem to see Tech Fit anymore, since this job has been taken over by base layers. Am I right?
    Incidentally, the situation I referred to with the ‘wrong font’ kit from e-bay was remedied by the seller refunding it, no questions asked. It also had the wrong sleeve patches on it and wonky lettering on the Climacool text, so I don’t really think they had a choice!

  526. Tony Spike Says:

    That sounds like a bad ripoff job martyn

    Yes i thought the premier league were the first to use gold sleeve patches in my eyes too, till i found those pics, but its figuring out if they are genuine

    I know some clubs have embroidery on occasion but thats not the thing here in england unless its a special occasion like a cup final

    These patches are of more interest to me at the moment

    i dont think its a wash job dennis …..i do however dispute their use just for the fact that same site has them on the green away kit from 91 ….arsenal were the current champs that year

    As for the numbers …..im talking the pre-premiership numbers

    Each club here had numbers made by their kit supplier

    So manchester united had umbro numbers for example, sheffield wednesday had puma and blackburn had asics …….its hard to tell whats fake and what isnt

  527. Nick Durham Says:

    On the subject of rare or one-off clash kits that were never commercially available, which ones can everybody think of?

    As a City fan, the all-yellow strip sported during a 4-0 thrashing at Arsenal springs to mind, as does the yellow Kappa effort of 97-98 paired with black shorts and socks. And the all-maroon kit worn during the latter part of 89-90, accompanied by the granddad collar from the previous, candy-striped away (recently mentioned on here) also merits a mention.

    As for other clubs, I remember Arsenal’s navy blue kit from their 98-99 UCL campaign – Denis, was this worn against Lens at Wembley?

    I feel I’m showing my age here. 30 this week!

  528. HArry Says:

    Yes re: the navy Arsenal kit being worn at home to Lens.

    How about the white adidas/Candy Liverpool shirt from 88/89 and, I think, 89/90?

    Happy birthday!

  529. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah that’s right Nick, a 1-0 ‘home’ loss.

    That maroon City kit was because the white and maroon stripes was deemed to clash with the likes of QPR and Sheffield Wednesday – the yellow kit was developed to solve the problem but met a nasty end after the visit to Highbury!

    Coincidentally, a white Chelsea third from 1990-91 was posted on a Facebook group I’m in today – can’t link as it’s closed – and it too falls into this category.

  530. Tony Spike Says:

    Wednesday themselves produced a rather bespoke white kit in 2013 -14 to avoid a clash at milwall i think,

    dont know if it was worn again but it was worn with the blue home shorts despite having its own pair of white ones

    Millwall returned the favor with their own orange number ……but they had to borrow our previous away for the first half

    Witch begs the question …..why didnt they bring they bring it from the start but these things happen i suppose

  531. Martyn Ping Says:

    As far as Bayern goes, there is the famous ‘Brazil’ away kit worn as a superstition at Kaiserslautern because they had trouble winning there and it was felt that dressing like Brazil would solve the problem! This was in about 1984, sponsored by Iveco. The shorts, being shiny and polyester, were so light as to be almost a teal / turquoise colour, and made an appearance paired with the home shirt in the ’87 EC Final. Not sure why as Bayern’s normal shorts at the time were red and Porto’s were blue. It looked bloody awful. That shirt has never to my knowledge been sold as an ‘official’ replica. Similarly, in the late 90’s when Bayern’s home kit was dark navy they wore a one off, non replica all red strip for the local derby matches with 1860. And in the early 90’s they wore a kit that was the same template as the 94-96 Germany kit, only in red white and black – I think it was in a cup final against Bremen (again, for no reason I can think of). All of these were, as far as I know, never sold as replicas. They also had a prototype of the white strip with the red and blue tramline worn in the ECF of ’96, with the main colour of black instead of white, the season before. I’ve seen it pop up on auction sites but never ‘officially’.

  532. Jon Says:

    Denis, I recall John covering a red Chelsea third kit from the 90/91 season in the updates section of this site, but I think the white kit may have been used the season before at Crystal Palace.

    It wasn’t the only one-off kit used that season. For the fixture at QPR, Chelsea wore their old jade away shirt (from the 87/88 season) with home shorts and socks.

  533. Denis Hurley Says:

    You’re right Jon, HFK confirms that it was indeed 1989-90.

    Something I only discovered recently about another third kit used that season – Liverpool used their white third strip at Villa Park in 89-90 too, even though Villa didn’t have the Hummel ‘striped halves’ style. The Liverpool kit differed from the 88-89 third in that there were no grey stripes between the red ones down the sleeves.

  534. Jon Says:

    I remember seeing that one in Liverpool football annual and wondered how come they weren’t in the usual grey away kit.

    On the subject of rare 3rd kits, Everton in 85/86 wore a very rare white jersey at Shrewsbury in the League Cup in October 1985. I doubt it was ever sold as a replica but did see a matchworn shirt on eBay.

  535. HArry Says:

    Didn’t Everton also wear a white 3rd shirt (sort of 88-89 style with v neck and thin diagonal checkerboard detailing) in 92-93? Think I saw a matchworn one on eBay 3-4 years ago.

    Also, what about the hallowed blue prototype arsenal shirt from 88-90? A picture has never surfaced, but apparently it was knocked up in the man utd 3rd shirt style.

    And the proto Liverpool bruised banana from 1990-91 in white and purple (a version was on eBay approx 6 years ago).

  536. Tony Spike Says:

    I like it when clubs manage to produce 3 kits that tick all the boxes yet cover all the bases

    Palace ….90-91 ….3 kits same template one red and blue striped one all blue and one all blue,….they still created a yellow and black 4th but thats palace

    Liecester 92-93 ….3 kits …same template ….all blue all white all yellow

    Same in 1996-97 ….blue and white, white and blue …all yellow

    Man united circa 80s (possibly earlier) red and white home, white and black away, all blue third

    Classics

    No need to screw around with anything

  537. Denis Hurley Says:

    Agree on those, Tony.

    @HArry – fairly sure that the Arsenal ‘third’ was a fake? Never seen the Liverpool one.

  538. HArry Says:

    The 84-86 pale blue one was a fake. The 88-90 one is possibly mythical.

  539. Denis Hurley Says:

    Interesting. I was only asking Simon ‘Shakey’ Shakeshaft the other day if he knew of any such Arsenal third prototypes and he didn’t think any existed.

  540. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    re. 529. Have a look at this, Tony:

    https://kitclashes.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/rochdales-unique-fa-cup-kits/

  541. Jon Says:

    HArry (no. 534)….. that particular Everton shirt was a third kit from 87/88 which was never worn in any match, but replicas were most definitely sold. I certainly recall a lad I was in school with who had that particular shirt, with a small NEC logo, which was common for childrens/small sized shirts (up to 30/32″, as shirts were still commonly sold in chest size).

    A few have surfaced over the years on eBay. The shirt from 92/93 was a white shirt of a different design, with a blue v-neck wraparound collar, think it was used for the game at Aston Villa due to both the blue home and the salmon pink and navy away shirts clashing.

  542. HArry Says:

    Ah, thanks Jon

  543. Jon Says:

    I’ll take back what I said about that white Chelsea kit Denis, they did indeed use it once in the 90/91 season at Crystal Palace, which makes a grand total of FIVE kits used that season.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ZoWNaXqZo

    The usual away kit that season was white with red diagonal chequers, or rhombuses for those of you good with shapes, but that kit combined with the Football League being super-nitpicky with colour clashes saw other kits being used. Here they are in chronological order.

    Palace (A) – 28/8/90 – all white (carried over from 89/90)
    QPR (A) – 1/9/90 – jade shirts (carried over from 87/88!), blue shorts and socks
    Coventry (A) – 1/4/91 – red shirts, white shorts, red socks, featured in the update on this site

    Makes me think the red shirts worn at Coventry were required because all four other kits clashed.

    The following season they ended up having a copy of Everton’s yellow and blue “line graph” jerseys as 3rd choice and stopped this 5 kits in a season nonsense.

  544. HArry Says:

    Well done, Jon. And here’s the clip of Chelsea wearing their old jade kit at QPR https://youtu.be/JlPMKXI8748

  545. Tony Spike Says:

    Strange musing that is matt my laddo

    But im personally not against both teams changing even if i would try to avoid it myself

    Thing you need to realise though is that we were produced by puma that season whilst dale had fila and milwall had macron

    we have no idea how far in advance either company needs to be asked for a 3rd kit design, you cannot plan for who you play against in the cup if you only know a few weeks earlier (thanks to replays and reschedualing)

    Perhaps wednesday had already asked in prep for the milwall game and couldnt speed up the process in time for a rochdale game we had only found out about a few weeks previous

    Perhaps this is why milwall didnt get their third till half time against us

    What we should REALLY be asking is why wernt we given the opportunity to borrow rochdales white away shirt with our blue home shorts whilst they used their blue and black home

    Easilly purchased from the club shop dude

  546. Jon Says:

    I’ve got Chelsea v Man City on TV at the moment. City wearing their illuminous yellow third kit, but Thibaut Courtois is wearing an all yellow kit, rather than the usual turquoise. How has the referee allowed this to continue???

  547. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Tony, Dale have had history around changing all too quickly when there’s been a clash. We’d worn white v Bristol R a few weeks previously.

    I could bore you for hours…

  548. Davidr1986 Says:

    Courtois wearing all yellow was a crazy choice today

    At Easter Road today there was a good example of teams being forced to adhere to stupid rules, in the first half the Alloa substitutes warmed up Pitchside wearing royal blue training sweatshirts which was perfect as no clash with Hibs in dark green and white and Alloa in Amber and black hoops, in the second half the subs were made to follow the rules and wear training bibs whilst warming up….. The only bibs they had were bright orange which at a distance could have easily been mistaken for a player on the pitch if there had been an incident in front of where they were warming up

  549. Tony Spike Says:

    Its not a bad thing matt

    Again …..im not for the practice but im not totally against it either and as previously mentioned here its not an uncommon practice (arsenal)

    I would rather the referees used common sense someimes (like i say a simple ruling telling us to borrow your away would have been a simpler solution) but if a club decides to change aswell its not a problem

    Visability IS priority here and i think we forget this here sometimes with respect to the “unwritten rules” of clashes (those same rules that say only the away team should change)

  550. Denis Hurley Says:

    The away team changing is most certainly a written rule, Tony!

  551. Jon Says:

    Couldn’t help but notice Man U changed into their white away kit for no reason tonight. And I thought they had an optometrist on their payroll?

  552. Denis Hurley Says:

    Disappointing Jon, I must have jinxed it by mentioning recently how they were one of the best teams for this!

  553. Jon Says:

    They seem to have a habit of unnecessarily changing into their away kit against teams that have amber in their kit, they wore white at Wolves a few years ago and likewise at Hull a couple of seasons ago.

  554. Tony Spike Says:

    Well yes i know THAT dennis no one is THAT retarded ….for some reason the word dont appears to be missing from my post

    As in “they DONT say that only the away team has to change) …..But surely you can forgive me ……..since.i think its clear from the rest of the post what i actually meant lol

  555. Jon Says:

    What constitutes a clash – practically 50% of games involving Santos…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSIyIFjq_2Q

    This is quite a poor one if you ask me, definitely don’t need a colour TV licence either. And as it’s Brazil, there is one thing that is a dead cert…….. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!

    Meanwhile this one from 1991 would get Denis in a real hot funk… thankfully when these two sides play these days, common sense prevails.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nKHeQ9jPbY

  556. Denis Hurley Says:

    My eyes!

  557. Martyn Ping Says:

    There are several instances down the years of teams refusing to change, particularly against bitter rivals. This is probably one of them. Then there are teams that change when they’re away whether there is a clash or not. I don’t see a problem with that unless it creates a clash – its more of a fair practice with regards to replica shirt buying fans, ie, an away shirt gets a decent amount of coverage. Similarly a third kit will often be used unnecessarily to get it ‘sold’. What irritates me is when elements cross over from the other kits and the wrong ones are used…for example Juventus using the standard home shorts with the away kit meaning the trim doesn’t match – from gold to white! Germany did a similar thing in WC 2010 when the away shorts were white – playing Ghana they had to play with mismatched trim (and numbers). I believe it then became a good luck charm because they then wore all black against Argentina and Uruguay where there wasn’t a shorts clash.

    On to another thing – do Leverkusen count as being the first of the big four leagues to officially unveil a 16/17 kit?
    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/02/jako-bayer-leverkusen-16-17-home-kit.html
    This brings to an end a long association with adidas, but I like Jako so it’ll hopefully give them some more exposure. No word yet on the away / third, but I would guess all red and all white respectively.

  558. HArry Says:

    That River Plate clash is horrific. What was the ref thinking? Can’t imagine his linos were best pleased re: offside calls…

  559. Jon Says:

    It’s an absolute shocker isn’t it?

    This one from 2006 is a shocker too, Ajax v Feyenoord. Quite why Feyenoord decided on a white away kit when their home shirt is 50% white, and not had a third kit option specifically for Ajax (at the very least) was beyond belief!

    http://youtu.be/xM_QrE02PFY

    If only the Netherlands had Rob van Styles as referee… :)

  560. HArry Says:

    Changing the subject, the Premier League rebrand will see the end of the current typeset on the backs of shirts.

  561. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just seen a leaked version of the new Barcelona kit, very much influenced by the ’92 EC winners shirt. It got me thinking – what would TC contributors say is the ‘definitive’ Barca look? Because Nike have constantly fiddled around with it for virtually their whole contract. I would say that I like to see them in blue and red striped shirts with red as the dominant colour, but with blue shorts and red and blue hooped socks; Away yellow shirt with a red and blue sash, yellow shorts and socks; third all teal with red trim. Even as a Bayern fan I like to see our rivals for ‘old big ears’ dressed well. On that note, I was also wondering why Leicester have never had an orange away kit, being as they are ‘The Foxes’? I guess amber is as close as they have ever got, but orange would work IMO, maybe with the black and sky sashed ‘Fosse’ kit as a third?

  562. Jon Says:

    For me the definitive Barça kit is the broad blue and dark red stripes look, blue shorts and blue and dark red socks. Away yellow with red and blue sash/side stripe and third kit the sane as the away but light blue instead of yellow.

    Pretty much their kits of the 1980’s.

    Wouldn’t mind a modern day version of the early 90’s Kappa kit worn by the “Dream Team”, though I doubt Barça would have any features of the kit in white (even the numbering) these days.

  563. Martyn Ping Says:

    Kappa have always done smart kits IMO – some great offerings for Werder Bremen / Wolfsburg / Dortmund / Monchengladbach / Juventus over the years. I think yellow is now the standard trim for Barca because of the close association with Catalunya. But you’re right, white used to be the trim colour, even if memory serves at the start of the Nike era.

  564. Davidr1986 Says:

    Pretty bad clash at Tynecastle today Hearts are wearing their third kit which is essentially their white away kit with the names of about 10000 fans’ names printed on it in black so from a distance the shirt appears pretty much grey, and Partick Thistle appear to have been under the impression Hearts would have been in their usual maroon as instead of red and yellow hoops they have turned up in all sky blue and a very pale sky blue at that! Only thing really differentiating the sides are Hearts’ maroon shorts and socks!

  565. Davidr1986 Says:

    Re Barca kits, albeit not a ‘traditional’ Barca look, the half and half with navy sleeves in 1999 was stunning, I do like it when Barca use navy alongside the traditional Blau/ grana colours, as for away kits I like the teal look, never been that keen on yellow ones, they did have one in circa 2008 with yellow and a thin red/blue stripe on the left hand side going through the badge which I liked a lot

  566. HArry Says:

    Betis v Granada on SS5 now is horrific. Betis in pink and green vertical stripes and green shorts. Granada in red and white hoops and blue shorts. Bright sunshine means only the green backs of the Betis shirts differentiate them.

  567. Tony Spike Says:

    Well rotherham played in yellow on saturday against wednesday

    Not needed but im not against it

  568. Jon Says:

    Palermo wore white at Internazionale tonight, even though there was no clash with their usual pink shirts. What made it more baffling was that Palermo’s keeper wore a pink home jersey, with white shorts and socks.

  569. Dan Says:

    Seems to be common with Italian sides, i’ve certainly seen Sampdoria do it on occassion (white away shirts for the outfield players, blue home shirt for the keeper)

  570. Denis Hurley Says:

    Funnily enough, I’m putting together a post for my site on a goalkeeper who has done this in each of the past four seasons, I should have it up tonight.

    Re Nick’s question about one-off kits above, Barcelona wore one against Manchester City in the Joan Gamper Trophy game in 2009: http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/89937700-lionel-messi-of-barcelona-controls-the-ball-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXqGhWIzSzoE5UIFn37Jy%2B2eouN14iMeIae1upRYH0iACAXEw1bBgmFUfEiV84WNYrw%3D%3D

  571. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Is it Marseilles’ Steve Mandana?

  572. Denis Hurley Says:

    That’d be telling!

  573. Jon Says:

    I was going to say is it Gianluigi Buffon?

  574. Denis Hurley Says:

    No, it’s posted now on http://www.museumofjerseys.com so you can see – let’s just say it might be of interest to Martyn Ping!

  575. Martyn Ping Says:

    Aha! I think I may have helped you with this one Denis…Just one slight correction : Manuel Neuer wasn’t initially liked by the Bayern fans when he signed not because he came from Schalke but because he once imitated a famous Oliver Kahn celebration while playing for them against Bayern. This led to a Bayern supporters group issuing him with a ‘code of conduct’ when he signed (because Kahn has legendary status at the Allianz). I think that has all been forgotten now, given how well he’s played since then!

    In a related note, Ralf Farhmann (Schalke keeper) has mostly worn the anthracite and green 3rd shirt as a GK shirt this season, being as they have mostly used their white and pale blue kit away from the Veltins.

  576. Denis Hurley Says:

    Cheers Martyn, will change that when I’ve a chance – should have known better than to trust Wikipedia!

  577. Jon Says:

    Emiliano Viviano, with his penchant for wearing Sampdoria’s home kit and strange choice of squad number, would be easily mistaken for being a right back!

  578. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thanks Denis – glad to be of assistance.

  579. Denis Hurley Says:

    Good deal of blue in both kits for Reading-Palace game, but no real clash watching on TV.

  580. Jon Says:

    Not as bad as the time the two sides met at Selhurst Park in 2006, which was also live on TV.

    Now that was a shocker, had extreme difficulty telling the two teams apart.

  581. Jon Says:

    Meanwhile, in that bastion of kit clashing (MEXICO)…….

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/gonzalo-bergessio-of-atlas-tries-to-kick-the-ball-during-the-9th-picture-id513966620

    *awaits Denis’ reaction*

  582. Martyn Ping Says:

    I must say on record how disappointed I am with Nikes Euro 2016 offerings. France, England, Holland and Portugal (I know Holland haven’t qualified but its coming out at the same time) all have IDENTICAL strips distinguishable only by the trim, colours and badge. I know adidas have been criticised historically for this approach, but at least their kits have bespoke elements this time. There seems to be no effort to at least come up with maybe 2 or 3 templates and move them around as with adidas. I really thought Nike were starting to get their act together, but having seen these, I’m glad I support a team with a long association with adidas behind them!

    And another thing…Lack of common sense on strips is not just restricted to football – saw Wasps (all black, yellow trim) playing Leicester (all dark green, white trim) in RU at the weekend. Truly, during the ‘contact’ periods of the game the socks were the only way of telling them apart!

  583. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, there’s a real laziness there Martyn, but what I dislike most is the way that every team has the same colour shirts and shorts and then socks in a different colour. It’s an awful gimmick.

    Anyone else notice that a shorts-clash was allowed in Chelsea-Everton game on Saturday? FA Cup usually a lot tighter than PL on them.

    @Jon – that’s just incredible!

  584. john b Says:

    Watford in away colours at Arsenal? Why?

  585. Jon Says:

    The leaked Nike kits are very unimaginative, and to think 10 years ago they changed tack with some really great kits for World Cup 2006……….

    The shirt design itself is basically the same as this season’s, but with pinstriped sleeves. Hardly set the world on fire. And as for the socks details, well the main source of the leaks is Footyheadlines who aren’t credible anyway (too busy glossing over Fred Bloggs wearing a pair of yellowed out Nike boots with stickers all over them).

  586. Davidr1986 Says:

    Ahh Nike World Cup kits for 2006, some tremendous simple and elegant kits, I had the Australia home shirt and it was a beauty! The Juventus kit of that year was also a belter

  587. Jon Says:

    I had the Portugal shirt from 2006, seemed to sell very well in Wales. Not sure why ;)

  588. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think 2006 was a golden era for design full stop. The Nike kits both preceeding and succeeding the tournament were belters – the Dortmund kits from this era (usual yellow with black centre stripe with the reverse away) were stunning. Then it all went t**s up and the next kit they did for the Schwarzgelben was yellow and white stripes with an awful sponsors logo…!

    Agreed Denis, that sock idea is just daft, especially with most of the countries reverting to a more traditional look after the silly ‘one colour strip’ World Cup. Are Nike now saying they are bigger than everyone?

    BUT…Just seen the new Croatia strip, and that one is nice, despite my personal bugbear of the pattern not lining up over the shoulders (and Nike are past offenders, on pretty much every Inter shirt I can remember).

    Re Watford and Arsenal – I did wonder…perhaps the match officials had a funny five minutes and thought that Watfords second colour was still red…? To me, the very notion of a black away shirt when black is dominant on the home is pretty ridiculous – similar thing this season with Leverkusen; black and red hooped home with black shorts, all red away…means that the most used away shirt is the all white third. I despair.

  589. Davidr1986 Says:

    I haven’t seen any of the Nike sock ideas, however by the sounds of it, it sounds stupid, some teams have pulled it off well (Chelsea more or less 1960’s on and Scotland 2013-15) but by and large it looks awful good examples have been in the past when teams have went to Chelsea such as Leicester and Bolton I can remember going in white/ white/ blue and it looking like it jars the kit awfully

  590. Denis Hurley Says:

    @Martyn and john b – Watford’s away kit is just that, they’ve worn it every opportunity they could, making games such as their visit to Sunderland look worse than if they had the home.

    At least they didn’t change at Newcastle!

  591. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, I think generally if its a dark colour shirt and shorts and light socks its fine, but the other way round just looks odd. Chelsea had an all white away kit back at the start of the Abramovich era (the Umbro one with a blue and black chest stripe) – the first choice socks on that were royal blue, and it didn’t work. So what makes Nike think that dark socks for England (red or blue? I can’t remember) will look OK in any galaxy? Deluded I think. Why can’t kit suppliers leave traditional colour schemes alone? I accept sometimes its fine for club sides (apparently Bayern are back in white shorts next season for the first time in a decade), but not international – some of those colour schemes date back 100 years or more. Leave them alone.

  592. Jon Says:

    Poland’s new Nike kits got revealed, it’s got a wavy watermark pattern on the front, but not a great deal to write home about. However they have kept the correct colour scheme – home white shirts, red shorts, white socks, and away is all red.

    Also seen the new Croatia kits, home shirt is a bit different with a wavy chequerboard pattern, trying to mimick the great Lotto shirt of 1998. The big talking point is the socks, which are red with white chequers on them!
    Away kit is the same design but in two tone blue, with blue shorts and socks. I can only assume the blue socks will get some use with the home kit.

    The rest of the Nike kits is just speculation, as I said earlier I wouldn’t believe half the stuff Footyheadlines put in their leaks.

  593. Jon Says:

    re: Martyn Ping, that yellow and white BVB shirt from 06/07 was awful. Not so much the inclusion of white stripes, but that really daft looking sponsor logo. It looked like an exclamation mark coloured in by a 6 year old.

  594. Martyn Ping Says:

    Agreed. It looked even worse on the classy away kit carried over from the previous season which was clearly designed with E.on in mind! Even as a Bayern fan I like the Dortmund shirts since Evonik came in as sponsor – the logo is clean, legible, and compliments both yellow and black. Everything a good sponsors logo should be, like our very own ‘—T-‘. I can’t abide these logos that are either too small, too messy, or too vague. You’re selling a product, just sell it!

  595. Jon Says:

    I see the Engl*nd kits were revealed and shock horror, Footyheadlines were actually right about the sicks. It looks like a terrible mish-mash that resembles a team turning up at their opponents ground only to find the referee isn’t happy about a clash of sock colours and forces them to borrow a pair. Or wear the standard away socks to avoid a clash (like they did in Brazil in the 80’s when John Barnes scored that goal he dined on for years).

    I would suspect when they play us on 16th June in Euro 2016, they’ll wear white socks, and knowing UEFA’s penchant for single colour kits (not unlike FIFA), we’d have to wear red shorts.

  596. Jon Says:

    That should have said SOCKS, not sicks… the perils of trying to type on an iPhone having chunky fingers!!!

  597. Martyn Ping Says:

    I’d like to see the Welsh football team take a leaf out of the RU sides book from a few years ago and have green socks. But all red against England won’t be a bad idea, will it? There seems to be a great deal of inconsistency from Nike now all the kits are out – the Turkey one (home and away) I actually really like. The away colours may appear unorthodox at first but the word ‘Turquoise’ is derived from ‘Turkiye’ anyway, so it kinda fits. Standard Nike gumph about the pattern being influenced by ‘mosaics in Turkish design’…What was ever wrong with saying ‘We picked this colour / shade because it looks nice’?

  598. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just saw the England kit. Its horrible, maybe the worst ever. Do we suspect that the ‘England’ on the back of the collar is for ‘certain players’ in case they forget who they’re playing for? And what is going on with those raglan sleeves? Seriously? With all the money that Nike drags in and that’s the best they can come up with? I reckon a smaller company could do a better job. BUT like the Euro ’96 grey away shirt I suspect the only reason behind the selection is that it’ll look good with blue jeans…presumably in the pub crying over a pint following ANOTHER early tournament exit.

  599. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, England kits are awful.

    Also – interesting to see Arsenal in home kit last night – an idea proferred by me in the article above. Barca’s red shorts slightly problematic IMO though.

  600. Jon Says:

    I’ll admit I’m not keen on us having green socks for the home kit. For starters we’d look like Hungary. I think the only time the socks haven’t been red as firat choice is when Adidas gave us white socks on the 1984-87 kit, though we sometimes wore red socks at home. We’ll probably wear all red against them lot, though they should be wearing navy shorts!

    And I would loves it if they’re crying in the pub after an early exit, especially if we qualify for the knockout phase at their expense!

    Just seen the Turkey kits – home one is pretty smart, though the colour scheme looks more suited to Albania. As for the away, oh dear the socks have totally jarred it, would be better with turquoise or white socks.

    In a nutshell, Nike have cocked up with the socks choices.

  601. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, agreed. Interestingly, the England away shorts are red, so by default they’ll become the alternative home pair. Back in the Umbro days, this was the reason they had white shorts with the away. If Nike must butcher tradition then surely navy shorts with the away would be a better idea? But yeah, England v Wales will probably be all white vs all red BUT don’t count out the possible lunacy of UEFA making Wales wear red / red / white so England can wear white / white / red. I like that Turkey away APART from the socks, but the home looks smart IMO. The other kits…Oh dear. England / France / Holland / Portugal / Chile / USA…maximum of two templates (plain sleeve and raglan sleeve) repeated across the whole range. The Brazil one is plain to the point of being forgettable, which is unforgivable for them.

  602. Davidr1986 Says:

    Having seen some of the new Nike kits now, have to say I think the England ones (especially home) are pretty awful, however I love the French and Portuguese ones (especially away!)

  603. Martyn Ping Says:

    The French one would be nice but its practically identical to the new USA away. Lazy on Nike’s part, especially as an American company – you expect something a bit special and unique for their ‘marquee’ contract.

  604. scott grimwood Says:

    On another note did anyone else notice that Barcelona appeared to wear different home sock’s against Arsenal. The normal sock’s have yellow “block’s” on the back but I didn’t see any on Wednesday evening.

  605. Dan Says:

    I’ve noticed that in Argentina, some teams have been wearing their away or third kits for home fixtures (Rosario vs Banfield & Racing vs Lanus).

    Anybody know the reasons for this?

  606. Davidr1986 Says:

    Finally getting round to watching MOTD, noticed that Arsenal are wearing short sleeves, however Özil appears to be wearing a long sleeved baselayer under his S/S shirt, had this ever happened before with Arsenal?

  607. Davidr1986 Says:

    Re Scott, Barcelona did wear alternative home socks v Arsenal, make what is a complete abomination of a home kit look at least a little better without the bright yellow arrows on the socks!

  608. Denis Hurley Says:

    @Dan I think that’s the convention in Argentina, that the home team changes?

  609. Denis Hurley Says:

    Good spot on Ozil David, I think it was the first half only?

  610. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Did anyone notice Kagiso Rabada wearing a sponsored South African shirt in the opening overs if England’s T20 innings on Friday? The tournament jerseys have ‘South Africa’ where the sponsor’s logo would normally appear.

  611. Denis Hurley Says:

    Haven’t seen any of the T20 unfortunately, will there be repercussions for SA?

  612. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Probably only a rap on the knuckles.

  613. Jon Says:

    Interestingly the Dutch are wearing orange socks with the home kit tonight, still doesn’t look right in my opinion, but France are in their away kit with the mismatched navy socks.

    Which definitely doesn’t look right…….

  614. Nick Durham Says:

    I’m far from a fan of the new England strips. The home, in particular, is an appalling break with tradition and simply doesn’t work. And while we’re used to the advertising spiel that accompanies each kit launch the connection made between the new red socks and John Barnes’s goal in 1984 is both tenuous and embarrassing. More accurately, the kit nothing more than a victim of Nike’s latest template. And do we even dare raise the question of the shameless barrel-scraping? What’ll be next? Actually, don’t answer that question.

  615. Nick Durham Says:

    I will say, though, that France’s new away kit is bloody nice. Not as good as the 2014 WC edition, mind – that was a gem – but lovely nonetheless. It just feels creative and vibrant.

    Of the mismatched sleeves, I’m sure some of you wondered what Nike would do about base layers. So did anyone else notice that the offending items were, happily, nowhere to be seen, and that long sleeve shirts abounded instead? Nice to see. Perhaps one day kit manufacturers (Nike, in particular, and adidas as well – see Juventus) will realise that long sleeve shirts simply look BETTER than base layers. And in the case of striped or hooped shirts, to go with the alternative just looks silly.

  616. Martyn Ping Says:

    The long sleeve versions of the current adidas shirts have the cuffs still halfway down, just with the stripes continuing, so designed to cunningly look like base layers anyway.

    Interesting that despite all the Nike ad gumph that the Dutch turned out, like you said, in all orange – also Chile wore their more traditional home shorts against Argentina. I wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘odd sock’ idea is suddenly swept under the carpet after the first few friendlies.

    Be interested to see what England turn up in against Germany tonight – I would guess all red as Germany will most likely have their first choice black socks on. And backing up my earlier comment I would think that by the Euro’s England will be in an all white home and all red away, with a new pair of white socks magically appearing sometime between now and June. Cynical, moi?

  617. Davidr1986 Says:

    I love the France shirt, the long sleeve version looks majestic! No doubt that will be difficult/ impossible to get a retail version of! Back to clashes, finally getting round to watching last weeks Football League Show, the Scunthorpe v Chesterfield clash was horrendous Scunny is blue and maroon stripes/ maroon shorts/ blue socks and Chesterfield in Blue/ White/ Blue looked awful, if memory serves me right Chesterfield have a white kit so surely all white or White/ blue/ white would’ve been sensible

  618. Tony Spike Says:

    you know what?

    for once i want to see what the FA’s official stance on the england kit and fan reaction is

    just for once i want them to say no …..were not wearing that crap and tell them to come up with something else

    i dont mind the away kit colours ……but the home? …..give us some bloody white socks …please

    otherwise the only option we will have is those blue ones and i dont like the idea of doing that

  619. HArry Says:

    Against all my better judgement, I thought the away kit looked good last night. It didn’t look like England, but then, thank goodness, neither did the performance.

  620. Tony Spike Says:

    the away didnt look bad in those colours its just the home thats bothering me …..it looks ugly as sin

    im hoping they either give us a pair of white socks we can use as alts or a pair of blue shorts we can use with those away ones

    otherwise

  621. Jon Says:

    We’re wearing our new charcoal away kit with lime green trim at Ukraine in tonight’s friendly (definitely a marketing exercise!!), and the home team are in their blue away kit.

    Would certainly make the contrast-a-holics at FIFA and UEFA froth at the mouth.

  622. Ali Says:

    A bit late, but Peterborough thought it would be a good idea to rock up at Doncaster in their pink away kit…

    re Nike Euro16 kits, I like them – they’re different, and I’ve personally always been a fan of different coloured socks compared to the rest of the kit. Having said that, they could at least have made more than one version of this ‘Vapour’ kit, i.e. with different collars/sleeves or whatever.

    Finally, @620 – that Welsh kit looks really poor with the white font, should have used the green again. Then again, Wales have, IMO, been given a pretty poor set by adidas this time around..

  623. Jon Says:

    I like our new kits but do think there is something “pedestrian” about them, particularly as we seem to have “tier 2″ status by not having the adidas stripes on the side of the shirts and the goalkeepers wearing the current season’s kit design.

    Still, it could have been a whole lot worse – we could have been supplied by Nike, who probably would have given us red shirts, red shorts and some totally random sock colour, like yellow.

  624. Denis Hurley Says:

    They’d say it was a tribute, Jon! https://lostboyos.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/19763.jpg

  625. Jon Says:

    They probably would, referencing battles against Scotland in the 70’s. Though for some reason we wore yellow socks in that “home” game in 1977 when Joe Jordan cheated.

    Think we wouldn’t need reminding.

  626. Denis Hurley Says:

    I won’t mention the war!

    Instead, given recent developments, here’s a piece about a notable World Cup template http://museumofjerseys.com/2016/03/29/we-need-to-talk-about-templates/

  627. Jon Says:

    I noticed tonight’s rescheduled Belgium v Portugal match has a possible contender for kit clash of the day. Belgium in sky blue, Portugal in their horrid mint green/jade kit with bluey-green sleeves.

    Far from ideal in my opinion.

  628. Jon Says:

    Here’s a pic of that Belgium v Portugal game.

    http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/512/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2016/3/30/94241057-f61d-41ab-ad23-d1c028e7783f.jpg

    Would be interesting to see Denis’ thoughts on this one, but for me, it’s a clash.

  629. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, Jon. Definitely a clash – the Belgian blue is a very light shade, so difficult to distinguish from white. Only the shorts save it. This Nike odd sock idea will only confuse the issue at the Euro’s.

  630. Martyn Ping Says:

    Was watching a classic FA Cup match this morning – Liverpool v Everton, 1986. I remember reading that most Toffees fans hated the white yoke on the home kit, but seeing it in action I like it. Le Coq Sportif really tried some interesting things back then – and at least the colours were traditional! Even that paler blue Everton kit with the white and yellow chest band (Umbro made) had real character. Back to 1986, and following up some other comments here, both GK’s had their GK strips on paired with the home shorts and socks. Oh the horror!!!

  631. Martyn Ping Says:

    Interesting article, Denis. Bayern beat Liverpool by one year, wearing the ‘shoulder stripe’ kits for the first time in 91-92, but interestingly, it was completely remodelled for 93-94, adding white trim on the stripes, socks, and collar. This was also the time that the template was used for an odd yellow and green away shirt, used from 92-94, making Bayern look a bit Norwich-y away from the Olympiastadion.

  632. Jon Says:

    It was standard practice for goalkeepers to wear the same shorts and socks as their team mates in the Football League. Even in the first season of the Premier League this applied, but from the 93/94 season onwards goalkeepers started wearing shorts and socks of a different colour to the outfield players.

    It makes me wonder if this was due to a Football League ruling. Most certainly prior to 1968, some goalkeepers would wear shorts, and sometimes socks different in colour to their team mates – e.g. Peter Bonetti wearing all green for Chelsea, and Gordon West wearing black shorts for Everton. However this must have been changed at the same time as when the League got shirty over the use of navy jerseys as they would clash with the referee (instead of the ref changing, as was the case in the Scottish League).

    I dare say there were quite a few strange rules governing kits in the Football League rulebook. One that has typically intrigued me was why goalkeepers seemed to wear a monochrome jersey up until around the 85/86 season in league competition, but in European competition would wear a jersey with contrasting trim/sleeves. Adidas-supplied clubs seemed to be the glaring case, whereby outfield players’ shirts almost always had the three stripe trim on the shoulders, but goalkeepers’ shirts would always be plain green with no contrasting trim whatsoever.

  633. Martyn Ping Says:

    Lots of ambiguities in the Football League. I was only thinking about this earlier – the Premier League, while being linked to the FL, was technically a breakaway league, run by a different governing body, with new initiatives like squad numbers (which only actually came in in 93-94), referees in different colours, and of course, huge commercial revenues.

    I remember back in the mid 90’s, when I got into football, the League Cup was still run by the FL, even though it comprised the ‘rebels’ from the PL – this meant that on a few occasions PL teams had to abandon squad numbers (I think this happened in the 95-96 final between Villa and Leeds). In fact, squad numbers weren’t even brought in until the 99-00 season in the FL.

    I wonder if the inconsistency you mention may have been related to that? Toni Schumacher’s GK strip in the ’82 WC was red with black raglan sleeves, yet I believe that Bundesliga GK’s wore solid colours right up until the late ’80’s. Probably a similar thing.

  634. Martyn Ping Says:

    And also GK’s are a supersticious bunch. A few examples : Lev Yashin – black; Sepp Maier – Germany: sky blue / Bayern: black; Gordon Banks – yellow; Fabien Barthez – black. Also, Brazil’s and Milan’s GK’s both favoured black in the 60’s. Not all of these cases were with the home shorts and socks – I know Yashin preferred all black, and was known as the ‘black cat’. Maier for Germany wore his sky shirt with black shorts and socks, regardless of whether his team mates were in white or green.

  635. Denis Hurley Says:

    @Martyn – squad numbers were actually allowed in the FL in 93-94 but were optional on the part of the club. You’re right about the 96 final being 1-11, but oddly in the 95 final Liverpool wore squad numbers but nameless shirts.

    You’re wrong about Bayern beating Liverpool though, they were both 91-92. Bayern held Cork City to a 1-1 draw in September of that season!

    @Jon – have you examples of that domestic/continental GK discrepancy? Sounds interesting, and I’m working on a piece charting the evolution of adidas GK shirts through 80s/90s.

    Refs getting priority over clubs continued in the FA Cup in the 90s – for a few years Wimbledon would have to change from their navy, forcing Man U to wear their third on one such occasion!

  636. Martyn Ping Says:

    I always wondered why that happened – Wimbledon in all red at Selhurst with Man Utd in the ‘Newton Heath’ kit – didn’t Cantona score with a chip from the edge of the box?

  637. Martyn Ping Says:

    Apologies Denis, you’re right – memory playing tricks on me again! I knew that Bayern started the adidas Equipment era in 91-92, I just didn’t realise that Liverpool did too.

  638. Denis Hurley Says:

    Well the funny thing is that Arsenal’s bruised banana was 91 as well and had longer shorts, but it had the trefoil rather than the AE logo.

  639. Jon Says:

    I’ve got quite a few examples Denis.

    First example I can think of was Ipswich Town’s goalkeeper (might have been Paul Cooper?) wearing a green and black adidas shirt (with green shorts and socks!) in the 1981 UEFA Cup final 2nd leg, though he wore a plain green shirt domestically (either made by Adidas or Uhlsport). Interestingly the Uhlsport shirt was worn in the first leg of the UEFA Cup final. The design used in the UEFA Cup was a very common adidas goalkeeper shirt at the time, worn in Euro 80.

    http://www.englandfootballonline.com/images/Goalkeepers/Gk1980GreenAlt2.jpg

    Then there was the 1982 European Cup final, where Jimmy Rimmer and Nigel Spink wore a green shirt with black sleeves and sides as per the same design as the home shirt (Rimmer also wore black shorts). Domestically a plain green shirt was used.

    Finally there was a slightly different Umbro shirt worn by Bruce Grobbelaar in the 1984 European Cup final to what he wore domestically. The difference was a black flappy collar and cuffs, whereas domestically these were both green.

    http://liverpool-shirt.narod.ru/1980-90/1983-84/shome-gk/cecf/83-4-1-shls-gk-cecf-1.jpg

    Likewise, Steve Sherwood wore the same design for Watford in red – with a red collar in the league, but with a black collar in the 1984 FA Cup final.

    As for squad numbers in the Football League, yes these were permitted in the 93/94 season, though not all 72 clubs adopted them. I recall a number of clubs such as Birmingham, Sunderland and Luton Town did have squad numbers, and even more interestingly Charlton had their unique take of assigning squad numbers by alphabetical order – hence defender Stuart Balmer was given the number 1 shirt!

    I think for 94/95 all of the clubs in the Football League (including those relegated from the Premier League) reverted to 1-11 for cost reasons, except for Sunderland if memory serves me correctly. Also, squad numbers were used in the 93/94 League Cup final, and had been used in all previous rounds, though some Premier League teams wore 1-11 at their own discretion.

  640. Jon Says:

    Arsenal’s bruised banana – loved that strip, especially the first time they wore it in the FA Cup :) :) :) :) :)

    And yes I remember that Cantona goal very well when Wimbledon wore red at home – touch and volley into the top corner. Sublime goal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-DlfeIOZps

    Come to think of it Denis, that adidas goalkeeper shirt I mentioned in the last post was used for a staggering 7 years, with minor adjustments. The design was first used in the 1978 World Cup when a yellow version was worn by Piet Schrijvers for the Netherlands, with a HUGE flappy collar. The version used by a number of adidas teams in Euro 80 had a smaller collar as per the link above. I say 7 years, because I know Wales used this design from 1980 until 1985 (Southall wore a green/black shirt it in that ill-fated 1-1 draw with Scotland), and Pat Jennings wore a yellow and black version for Northern Ireland in the 1986 World Cup qualifiers.

    Interestingly there was a slightly different version of the same goalkeeper jersey used in Spain – where the collar was slightly different. I know Real Madrid’s keeper wore this in European competition, but without a badge on the shirt and even more bizarrely without a shirt number.

  641. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, it was a nice style Jon, and you’re right about the longevity as Packie Bonner and Gerry Peyton wore it for a team picture when the Republic of Ireland signed a deal with adidas in 1986 – the green shirts in the picture never appeared in a game, though.

    Re PL teams wearing 1-11 in the cups, Manchester United did it against York City when they lost in 1995-96 and later that season they were forced to do so against Sunderland in the FA Cup, when the referee cited the relevant competition rule which stated that teams should be numbered thus.

  642. Martyn Ping Says:

    Didn’t Argentina do the alphabetical thing in ’78? I seem to remember reading somewhere that Ardiles wore no 1 at that tournament.

    I think the evolution of GK shirts is another interesting story, Denis / Jon – I remember back in the mid 90’s they were heavily padded on the elbows and the main body, and a few GK’s started wearing short sleeves (I seem to remember Casillas in about 2003), which meant that they eventually evolved into the situation we have now where the standard outfield shirts are sometimes used (as with Ralf Fahrmann at Schalke). I’ve been doing some research and throughout the 90’s until his retirement in 2008 Olli Kahn wore GK strips that while unique were linked quite heavily to their respective strips – for example when the Bayern home strip was plain red with a floppy white collar and virtually no trim in 05/06, the GK strip was sky blue with a black floppy collar and no trim.

  643. scott grimwood Says:

    Paul Cooper did indeed wear the black and green adidas goalkeeper shirt with green short’s and sock’s for the 2nd leg of the 1981 UEFA cup final against AZ67. I believe it was the only time he wore it. I think he wore the standard keeper shirt for the 1st leg.

  644. Jon Says:

    Looking further into it, it seems as if the rules on goalkeepers’ kit were also relaxed in the FA Cup too – hence the aforementioned Paul Cooper wore a red jersey with black collar against Arsenal in the 1978 final (Arsenal wore yellow that afternoon, by the way).

    Additionally in 1977, Liverpool’s Ray Clemence wore what appeared to be an adidas jersey in green (without a number, strangely) against Everton in the 1977 FA Cup semi-final, and a yellow version against St. Étienne in the European Cup semi-final (both legs). He didn’t wear these in either final, as he wore Umbro shirts made specially for the final (the FA Cup final jersey had red logos and number).

    I’m sure I read something previously that the Football League also only allowed goalkeepers to wear a yellow jersey in league matches if they were an international. I think the only instance I’ve seen is when Peter Bonetti wore yellow against Coventry, either in 1972/73. Otherwise if green couldn’t be used in the event of a clash, red or blue was used instead.

  645. Denis Hurley Says:

    Green shorts and socks sounds way better with that adidas style than the black worn by most – Jim Leighton springs to mind.

    White was also an alternative choice to green, Jon – in 82-83 Arsenal had all four GK colours.

  646. Martyn Ping Says:

    So today’s BIG QUESTION : Q. How do you honour one of your greatest players and managers, the guy who revolutionised your club, introduced a new tactical awareness, and inspired a young and inexperienced coach to embrace those ideals, becoming in turn one of the most in demand in Europe?
    A. By sticking a mere two word statement on the shirt for the next match against your biggest domestic rivals…’Gracies Johann’? Is that the best they could do? How about ditching that non traditional strip, playing El Classico in sponsor-less, retro, one off shirts with a number ’14’ on the sleeve? Now THAT would be a tribute, not this pathetic token gesture.

  647. HArry Says:

    Just goes to show much this ‘more than a club’ cobblers is exactly that. More worried about projecting the brand and their Qatari sponsor to the viewing billions.

  648. Martyn Ping Says:

    I still can’t quite get used to sponsored Barca shirts. OK, the Unicef one, being a non profit, charitable sponsor, fine. But an airline and white goods companies? With the Unicef logo rendered of secondary importance on the back? I can’t help thinking that this once proudly independent club have sold their soul to commerce, and this latest insult to Cruyff’s name and legacy just sums it up.

  649. Jon Says:

    Terrible kit clash today in the game between Sunderland and West Brom. Someone at the Premier League should have asked West Brom to come up with a third kit for that match.

  650. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, just watching it it now on MOTD, pretty bad

  651. Denis Hurley Says:

    Also – Watford, as they have done all season, wore their away kit at the Emirates yesterday. The officials were wearing Watford’s home colours. :(

  652. Jon Says:

    Nothing new there then!

    And to think there was a time in the old days of the Football League where they forbid this kind of kit changing behaviour!

  653. Denis Hurley Says:

    Was it a rule, Jon?

  654. jon b Says:

    Newcastle wearing white at Norwich…why??
    Also mentioning Barca,how many goalside logos on the pitch do they need?? are they that desperate for money?

  655. Alexander Perkin Says:

    Talking of Barcelona…

    “Both FC Barcelona and Atlético Madrid will wear their respective second kits in the two teams’ Champions League clash on Tuesday, UEFA has announced”.

    Argument it …what’s more important, tradition or avoiding a kit clash?

  656. Denis Hurley Says:

    The latter, definitely. When they played in the league this season it was awful.

  657. Jon Says:

    Denis it was certainly some kind of directive around the late 80’s/early 90’s where teams could only change if there was an actual clash. They got quite tough on kit usage it appeared, and as mentioned previously on this site they got quite shirty with stripe clashes – hence the Tyne & Wear and Sheffield derbies often saw the away team change kit.

    Norwich, for instance, didn’t wear their away kit in league competition at all between 1988 (after Watford got relegated) and 1992, and even with the crossover of the Premier League didn’t wear their away kit until their relegation in 1995. Bit ironic considering they got TWO change kits that don’t solve kit clashes whatsoever.

    As for the Barça v Atlético game, good call on UEFA’s part, but how come Atlético haven’t got a third kit, which is supposedly a UEFA requirement for European competition?

  658. Martyn Ping Says:

    I can remember the mid 90’s when third kits were rare / seldom worn…I remember seeing a picture of West Ham playing in the white one with claret sleeves, at a time when their away kit was the old standard sky blue with claret chest band. Confused me no end! I think the issue is that considerations these days are driven purely by commerce rather than practicality – so we are seeing inadequate third kits that don’t really offer anything approaching a solution. As regards Norwich, again in the mid 90’s they had that tartan blue offering made by Mitre that was rarely seen.

  659. Davidr1986 Says:

    Having finally getting round to seeing more of Adidas’ teamwear training range for 2016 it makes me even more disappointed that Scotland were dropped down to tier 2 by Adidas, I’m loving the new Condivo 16 range and in bespoke colours it would have looked great for us!

  660. ciaran Says:

    Strange to have Barca and Atletico Madrid in away given that they both played in their first kits earlier in the season

    More exposure to Nike kits too if nothing else

  661. Jon Says:

    Rules on kit clashing seem to be far more lax in Spain than in European competition. Apparently there were some comments raised about clashing in Barça-Atlético matches this season due to Atleti’s shirts having a plain back (shocking, IMO) whereas this wasn’t much of an issue in the past when their shirts had white stripes all over which made distinguishability a lot easier.

    I’m sure if Atlético had a third kit – oddly they must be the only Nike top tier club without a third kit – they would have been made to wear it for the first leg.

  662. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    So the ban on striped backs of shirt caused a kit clash?

  663. Jon Says:

    In UEFA’s eyes it certainly does, but there were a few ramblings on social media about it.

    On the subject of clashes, Joe Hart clashing with his own team mates again, wearing yellow whilst the outfield players are wearing that illuminous kit. I’m having trouble distinguishing him from the other Man City players.

  664. Denis Hurley Says:

    I’d put the problems with Barcelona-Atletico down to my favourite, the overall clash caused by Barca having red shorts this season: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfKyza_W4AAEHAR.jpg:large

    Rather than both teams having to change kits though, a shorts swap would have solved it IMO https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfMsq29XIAAkT3e.jpg:large

  665. Martyn Ping Says:

    Interesting to see the latest manifestation (presumably) of UEFA’s bizarre clash rules, not in the above game (though that was fairly strange and could have been avoided how you said Denis), but in Wolfsburg vs Real Madrid. Real wore their all navy kit, which was apparently too close to Wolfsburg’s green shorts, so VfL had to wear white shorts, meaning they were in all white, and looked like…Real Madrid. It’ll be interesting to see what they wear next week at the Bernebeau – the away strip is green and blue, and the third is blue. Thoughts, anyone?

  666. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Belgium women wearing their very cool pale blue away kit v England last night was rubbish.

  667. Jon Says:

    I concur, why couldn’t Belgium wear their usual red?

    I can never understand teams wearing their away kit for no reason and cause a clash.

  668. ciaran Says:

    Norwich wearing their away Kit against Crystal Palace yesterday was a bit unnecessary. Especially as the away kit was as nearly more of a clash then the home one.

  669. Jon Says:

    I was wondering that myself.

    At least this time Palace’s goalkeeper wasn’t clashing with Norwich’s players like he did on the opening day of the season.

  670. Davidr1986 Says:

    Am I right in thinking that Norwich have only used their third kit once this season?!

  671. Jon Says:

    I think they wore it at Stoke in a league match, but I could be wrong.

    Not sure if they’ve used it in at least one cup game too.

  672. Martyn Ping Says:

    Jon,
    You’re right – was worn against Stoke.
    Bizarre kit news – Hertha BSC have brought out a ONE OFF kit to be worn in a CUP SEMI FINAL…Its horrible, doesn’t even have Hertha’s usual stripes, it’s a teamwear kit, and it’s retailing for 75 Euros! I have nothing against special trim or text for the latter stages of a competition, or even one off sponsors, but a WHOLE NEW KIT….???

  673. Jon Says:

    I saw that on Bootanorakd sorry I mean Footyheadlines, yeah what the hell? A bog standard teamwear shirt from last season for a cup semi final, some shady attempts at profiteering going on there!

    Why couldn’t they wear one of their three other kits?

  674. Jon Says:

    That should say “Bootanoraks”…….. Footy Headlines are so over the top about boots, ohhh Freddie Bloggs wears a pair of red boots with the Nike logo scrubbed out in red pen!

  675. Davidr1986 Says:

    since Adidas dropped the classic red tongue on Predators, my enthusiasm for boots has heavily waned

  676. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, you do have to plough through a lot of needless boot gumph, but their shirt info is usually spot on – at least for Bayern.

    The Hertha situation is compounded by the fact that the stripes are actually more traditional!

  677. Martyn Ping Says:

    Now this IS nice – and apparently the shirt costs 50 Euros (difference between Nike and Jako I suppose) :
    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/04/hannover-96-120th-anniversary-kit.html
    I love lace up collars – I have a Bayern one like this – it’s just a shame that Hannover will probably be relegated this season…

  678. Tony Spike Says:

    speaking of keepers

    may be thats what joe hart is going for

    looking like your own players decreases visibility so ….as previously mentioned …making it more difficult to use him to pick out the goal

    or may be its just reflective of his performances lol

    as for old keeper tops i have had a few questions on this for a while ….from the hummel generic a few keepers wore to the fact i remember when goalies wore a garish top with the shorts and socks of the rest of the team,

    all except Bruce Grobelaaar (spelling?) who wore plain yellow adidas top with black shoulder stripes

    i also remember seeing a Leicester match from the 70s where the away team gk wore a red kit apposed to the green home gk

  679. Davidr1986 Says:

    Keepers wearing similar colours to outfield players is a major bug bear of mine, especially in Football League there are many poor examples of keeper kit choices, multiple red teams seem to deck their keepers out in orange, there was an example of a team having a neon yellow outfield kit and the keeper wearing neon green (Northampton maybe?)

    even my own team have offended badly with this as for past 2 seasons we’ve worn dark green outfield and a light green keeper shirt despite having an all yellow keeper kit (never worn competitively in 2 years of use) and a grey keeper shirt (worn circa 5 times in 2 years) which also links me into the other point re Keepers wearing outfield shirts and socks which we’ve done numerous times in past 3 seasons with our ‘Nike’ (Just Sport Pro) contract where the green and gray keeper kits are just paired with plain black shorts and socks instead of dedicated matching items, we have haphazardly switched to wearing white outfield shorts and socks with the green keeper shirt against teams with black or navy shorts and socks however not all of the time, we did against Ross County but didn’t against Falkirk who both play in Navy socks and changed to white shorts and socks for keeper against Rangers due to their black socks creating a shorts clash!

    The sooner we get rid of Nike teamwear the better, the home shirt is green with white sleeves, white shorts and white socks with a black stripe down the side which just doesn’t go and they won’t make us socks in the custom green we got the shirt in! At least Puma and Adidas tier 2 contracts will customise all parts of the kit, even if it is just a 2 colour effort

  680. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think Nike do take the p**s sometimes with team wear. The best ones I’ve seen in Germany are Augsburg home and away (white with green and red line and black with the same, respectively), and Freiburg (black and red fading checks) – the latter is rendered in amber and claret for Bradford and looks disgusting, but really works for SCF. And Bochum’s home kit is unusual in that it is a teamwear template that uses three colours (navy and sky shirt with a white collar). Generally though there seems to be little imagination or effort to fit into anything approaching tradition. Hertha’s home kit this year has real style, but I’m not sure if they’re a teamwear or main contract – the Nike deal with them dates back at least 15 years, and their templates seem to be the same as main contract teams. I’m not sure on that one. This is where smaller manufacturers like Matchwinner, Influence and the like used to do well in the 80’s, and today some nice kits come out from Jako, Saller and others. I imagine that the Nike situation has you spitting feathers David! How much better it would be to see Hibs in Umbro, adidas or Puma. In terms of adidas, the current Scotland shirt would work IMO, rendered in green and white – even the tartan shadow pattern would work.

  681. Davidr1986 Says:

    You’re really teasing me now Martyn with the thought of the Scotland shirt in green, Hibs were Adidas in the late 80’s and very early 90’s and those shirts are still held in very high regard to this day!
    I wouldn’t even mind Macron, the villa or Millwall shirt in dark green and white would be great

  682. Martyn Ping Says:

    Anything that honours tradition without being too ‘shoehorned’ into an existing template I think is fine. Nike have done the same thing with Bremen, and with Wolfsburg ditching nice, classy, bespoke Kappa kits in favour of insipid Nike ubiquity, I’m afraid half of the Bundesliga will be a bit pedestrian next year, kit wise – only adidas, Puma, Erima, Lotto, Kappa and Jako keeping the creative flag flying.

  683. Davidr1986 Says:

    I know what you mean Martyn, templates have been used for 30+ years but Nike’s approach for having every team shoehorned into one look is getting monotonous, 2 seasons ago it was the light front dark back kits, this year the gradient sleeves and shorts and now the stripey sleeves, a little variation would be nice! Are Wolfsburg getting ‘top tier’ kits like Hertha or Werder?

  684. Martyn Ping Says:

    No, apparently it’s going to be a teamwear contract. For a consistent top 10 side, one who just this week were playing in the Champions League, its mad. I can’t understand why they’ve done it. I could understand maybe if they were a top tier contract, but they were teamwear I believe back in the late 00’s, before switching to adidas and then onto Kappa. So expect pedestrian designs. The only saving grace is that, only being founded in 1945, VfL don’t have a specific look. Since making it to the Bundesliga in the mid 90’s, they’ve had black and green stripes, dark green, flourescent green, lime green, and white home kits, so at least there isn’t 100+ years of history being ruined by teamwear monotony like with Hibs.

  685. Jon Says:

    I remember Wolfsburg having green and white halves too, but a shame they’re getting rid of bespoke Kappa kits for off the peg lazy Nike efforts.

  686. Davidr1986 Says:

    That is a shame, this seasons Kappa ones were very nice! So disappointing by Nike

  687. Martyn Ping Says:

    My thoughts exactly. That halved one you mentioned was teamwear too – it had a horrible floppy polo shirt type collar that just looked cheap, something VfL fans will have to get used to again! Kappa have for me been one of the most underrated suppliers possibly ever – they did some stunning kits for Juventus in the 90’s, and Werder Bremen in the early 00’s, as well as some lovely kits for Wales. And apart from collars and trim, all of the elements are bespoke to a particular club.

    I mentioned that special Hannover kit before – used last night against Monchengladbach – its STUNNING. And to wade into the debate about GK kits – Zieler had an all black kit with white socks, using the same lace up collar design as the outfield (though the player worn versions use fabric instead of actual laces), meaning his shorts and socks match the outfield exactly – just like the ‘good old days’!

    Just saw a leaked Liverpool home kit for next season – trimmed with yellow (to make ex-Dortmund boss JK feel more at home?) – just one thing that occurs to me – I don’t like the fact that the sponsor logo will also be yellow – I think it works better in white, to stand out more – the whole effect IMO just makes the Liver bird, New Balance logo, and Standard Chartered logo all blend into one. Does anyone agree?

  688. Jon Says:

    Yeah we wore Kappa from 2000 until 2008, though the 2006/07 kits were marred with the awful oversized v-neck collar, which spoiled the kit. My favourite kit from the Kappa era had to be the 2002 shirt, which was worn in an almost successful Euro 2004 campaign. My only gripe with Kappa’s kits in recent years were the oversized logos, which were very prominent in the mid to late 2000’s. Thankfully they’ve reduced this in recent times and come up with some decent kits.

    Prior to 2000 they did some great kits, Juve’s in 1995 was a cracker – great home shirt and equally good away in blue with yellow stars on the sleeve, worn in the 1996 Champions League final.

    I saw that Hannover kit too, classic! And as for Liverpool, well, I think it’s lacking some white trim!

  689. Jon Says:

    Whilst not a football kit news story regarding a colour clash, I couldn’t help but notice Halifax goalkeeper Sam Johnson wore an ancient (by today’s standards) Adidas jersey against Cheltenham in the National League.

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/16/dan-holman-cheltenham-town-promotion-halifax

    The shirt dates from 2003!!! Dida wore an identical shirt for AC Milan in the 03/04 season.

  690. Tony Spike Says:

    screw teamwear ….nike needs to get their s**t together well and truly and stop being lazy

    word on the street is that all nike teams are getting this contrasting socks malarky next season

    inter have been leaked as wearing yellow (witch looks ……different …to say the least ….strangely nice but not traditional)

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/12/leaked-inter-milan-16-17-kit.html

    man city will go back to wearing sky blue shorts ….but with drumroll please!……..white socks

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/12/leaked-manchester-city-16-17-home-kit.html

    atletico madrids away will have yellow socks

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/12/leaked-atletico-madrid-16-17-away-kit.html

    now apparently barca will be spared on the home but here is their away colours …..i think the socks are white

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/11/leaked-barcelona-16-17-away-kit-purple-pink.html

    in deuchland the same kit is to be reused (paired with white trim) for the werder bremen away kit

    no real news from france but word is Lille OSC will be spared …their nike contract is up

    so yeah ……i expect to see a few teams with those stupid arms too and whilst most teams look like their sock colours will actually look nice with the kit and make sense….the inter kit shows no one is safe

    wich means im expecting york city to wear all red with blue socks

  691. Tony Spike Says:

    and yes jon …..the Kombat 2000 template by Kappa was a classic but i hate it when manufacturers emblazon massive logos on the arms

    it WAS innovative in the 80s when their was no logo on the front and the arm logos were small but those big ones detract from the club and make the brand more important …like those adidas kits from 1992

    i dont so much mind the JD sports brands doing it so much (JD, Carbrini, Fila ect) even if i think they kinda shouldnt a wee bit (im a traditionalist) their kits are excellent and the logos are quite small

    but the kappa ones were over exsessive

  692. Tony Spike Says:

    oh and on a THIRD topic (damn inability to edit posts)

    but what do you reckon to this, form all accounts it broke in November, but by this Hibs are one of the teams who would be affected simply because their badge has a shield …….as would Sheffield Wednesday if the English college of arms decided to do the same

    our 150th anniversary badge is the 1950s badge …..the Sheffield coat of arms

    http://www.scotzine.com/2015/04/the-lord-lyon-a-group-more-out-of-touch-than-the-scottish-fa/

    i think its utter codswallop ……i respect heraldric traditions (its a beautiful art form and should be respected)

    but i think the law to use the arms of a community/country should AT LEAST extend to the sports teams and schools that represent them ….sometimes around the world ..and have for nigh on 150 years in the case of my team

    its bloody stupid, corporate company’s i can understand …but not this

  693. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just seen Dortmund’s and Arsenal’s Puma kits for the new season – very nice. I do wonder what adidas think about Puma aping their 92-94 design though!

    As regards the above point about badges, I believe that a lot of clubs (Arsenal and Fulham to name two) had to drop the coat of arms of the local area because they had to give the proceeds to the respective councils. So it is commercially driven. But you are right, up until the 70’s most clubs used heraldic, city, or county coats of arms, a trend that seems to have died out. I can remember a resurgence in the mid 90’s – Wolves, Luton, Burnley and a fair percentage of the FL used coats of arms. Personally my favourite Wednesday badge was the one used up til about ’96 – the black and yellow owl design. When they changed to the one with the owl looking straight out I think it lost its immediate impact – club badges have to immediately indicate which club they belong to – even though Forest used to use the Nottinghamshire coat of arms, it still had ‘NFFC’ printed below it – that pre ’96 Wednesday badge was a great example.

  694. Tony Spike Says:

    Forests current badge is the same one that was adopted at the same time as we changed to just the owl (that we still use btw ……and it was the same colour as the kit it was on most of the time i think the black and gold was just a 90s thing) ……i think simple line badges were a trend at the time

    But i love that logo too ….im hoping our change is a 1 season thing for the 150th

    But that badge we wore in 96-99 was a reproduction of the sheffield coat of arms badge that we will be changing to next year …..the one we had in the 50s

    As it stands though i dont think the shape matters ….i think as long as it is a shield with text on it its considered a crime by heraldric law and that means that the heraldric society can both request a change AND that they register it to the tune of £17000 …..it sucks man

    And its all because they dont want just ANY OLD RAGAMUFFINS holding a coat of arms

    Its spelled the death knell for guys like fulham using the fulham arms like they used to ….and for some lower league clubs it can cost them more just to have a new badge designed

  695. Tony Spike Says:

    And thats all because they have a scottish saltire of their flag in the badge ……apparently you can only put the flag of scotland ….or the red lion rampant on gold on a shield if you are entitled to do so by bloodline

    And the only people that are allowed to do that are the royal family …..its one of their devices

  696. Ali Says:

    Speaking of adidas GK shirts, here’s what Mandanda wore at the weekend vs Monaco…

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/marseilles-french-goalkeeper-steve-mandanda-stops-the-ball-during-the-picture-id521922846

    Thought it was familiar:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tmp77f_iBR8/U7erXtbvshI/AAAAAAAASzM/b45Et_7TMGA/w780/Adidas-FC-Lorient-14-15-Home-Kit+(1).jpg

  697. Davidr1986 Says:

    Re the Scottish badges it’s not only the Saltire that is the issue, there are a few things that can’t be used in a certain way, for Hibs the issue would be the Castle in the badge, I would have thought Hibs would have had this all checked out since in the 80’s the same people made us stop using our badge with a crown as that was seen as ‘heraldic’ too

  698. Jon Says:

    The whole thing about the badges in Scotland is quite frankly ridiculous, it hadn’t been an issue for the last 50-60 years, so why now?

    Thank goodness there is no such flippant nonsense in Wales, where many clubs quite freely have the Y Ddraig Coch in their badges, either with the green and white background, or not. Though my club has the Prince of Wales feathers on the top portion of our badge, though it is something that some Welsh nationalists are keen to replace with a different emblem.

    Oh and that Mandanda kit…… did he borrow a third kit from the Ipswich town kit man? :P

  699. Martyn Ping Says:

    This whole thing about heraldic badges is a bit strange, and peculiarly British. In Spain, for example, the clubs carrying the ‘Real’ (Royal) prefix I believe are allowed to do so with permission from the monarchy – this also entitles Sociedad, Betis, and of course Madrid to call themselves Real AND carry a crown over their badges. As far as I know no financial reparations are involved. Similarly, Barcelona have both the flag of Catalunya and the St Georges cross (in deference to one of the club’s founders). Again, no financial implications as far as I’m aware. In Germany, very few clubs carry specific references to their home cities or regions other than associated colours – the main exception is Bayern, who carry the flag of Bavaria in their crest.

  700. scott grimwood Says:

    What’s that about borrowing an Ipswich third kit Jon?

  701. Jon Says:

    Mandanda’s kit, from Ali’s post (no. 695).

    I’m amazed that Adidas Toque 13 template is popular, we had it for the home shirt in the 13/14 season (in red) – didn’t like it, looked cheap and nasty in my opinion. Mind you so does the Tabela 15 jersey, which looks like a bad rip-off of the Wales shirt from 2014.

  702. Denis Hurley Says:

    Palace, having worn the home shorts and socks at the Emirates on Sunday, wore clashing white shorts at Old Trafford tonight.

  703. Jon Says:

    I’m quite surprised Palace haven’t got a third kit this season given they’ve got a white away kit and the amount of red and white teams in the Prem.

    Last season Sunderland were told to cobble up a makeshift third kit for the fixture at Palace last season, but Palace have been able to get away with their home kit at Sunderland, Stoke and Sunderland.

  704. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    No issue with the Palace away kit, it has one thin red stripe (and a blue one).

  705. Denis Hurley Says:

    Sunderland’s away is more white than red this season, Jon – perhaps that’s the reason?

  706. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Sunderland’s away looks green to me Denis.

  707. Martyn Ping Says:

    New Liverpool home. Thoughts? I think too much yellow. As I’ve mentioned before I’d prefer it if the sponsor logo was white, yellow badge and kit supplier logo, white collar. Simple, and effective. Trimming everything in yellow just looks a bit…wrong.

    Also, are Schalke 04 the only club from the leading European leagues to carry kits over? Last season’s home was re-used for this year, and this seasons white away and green and anthracite third will be used next season. I can’t think of any other club that does that now. Leverkusen were doing it, but it remains to be seen if they retain the policy when the Jako deal starts.

  708. Denis Hurley Says:

    Sorry Andy, meant home.

  709. Denis Hurley Says:

    Newcastle goalkeeper Karl Darlow wearing a fairly light grey/silver today with the outfielders (needlessly) in the white away kit.

  710. HArry Says:

    Did anyone see the first leg of the FA Youth Cup final the other night. Both City and Chelsea in their home kits (which I’m fine with). But the Chelsea keeper was in turquoise and the City keeper in navy/dark purple…

  711. Al Says:

    Yes I saw that, hopefully things will be different in tonights second leg.

  712. Tony Spike Says:

    symbology is a powerful thing (and a subject i have much interest in when it comes to football)

    far as im aware martin the German and Spanish heraldic authority’s are just more lenient full stop, but here in Britain you are only allowed to use those symbols you are ENTITLED to by heraldic law and the royal college of arms has final authority on the matter

    the lion rampant, the saltire are all symbols of Scotland with the red lion on gold only being allowed to members of the royal family, same with 3 red lions and the 3 feathers being symbols of England, wales and again …the royal family (prince of wales) respectively

    thankfully in England its much easier to get around (simply change the lions a little bit …England’s blue lions for example then register a Trademark) and less well enforced (though it carry’s a bigger fine …£17,000 in comparison to Scotland’s £5,000)

    but i have seen many badges from these other country’s that contain heraldry from their respective regions without problems

    the aforementioned Bayern for example,

    Barca has the Catalan flag (red and yellow stripes) in its emblem (a symbol that barca is seen as Catalunya’s unofficial national team ….and emphasizing the previous problem with the Spanish national team that Spain has really had a problem with its national identity …preferring province’s over a centralized government)

    but the prefix REAL to mean Royal connections is a different kettle of fish entirely however ….and a massive part of the reason i have a problem with Real Salt Lake using the term (last i checked Salt Lake City was formed by Mormons not Royalists ……they kicked Royal ism out the US when they booted us out the country LMAO)

    the term REAL to me is more akin to the terms SC & RC (Sporting Club & Racing or Rowing Club respectively) in that it just denotes a connection to an organisation ……and in the case of Dynamo denoting a membership or connection to the Dynamo sports society

    you might find a lot of these “royal” teams also use purple as a colour somewhere (the colour of royalty …though some use royal blue and regal red) as well as having a crown on their badge

    now i would like to think you can achieve a royal “dispensation” here too but i doubt you are likely to get one, its the college of arms that awards these titles, the queen has no real power in these matters i believe

  713. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    The excellent Design Football Podcast discussed the subject of badges and heraldry in Scotland in great depth. Martin Le Roy (designer of the Kilmarnock away kit 2010/11) joined host Jay. Here is a link:

    https://www.acast.com/thedesignfootballpodcast/episode10-footballcrestswithmartinleroy

  714. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think you can call yourself ‘Real’ in Spain only with permission from the Royal house, which in turn entitles you to use a crown in your badge.

    Dynamo – as in Dresden – was a collective term for clubs associated with the East German security forces. Dresden still carry Dynamo in their name, as well as the prefix ‘SG’ (Sports – Gemeinschaft) as they have always had close ties to Dresden and its people, regardless of political affiliations.

    But the multi sport association thing is VERY common in Germany – thats why there is a VfL Bochum 1848 – if the football division had been founded then they’d be the worlds oldest professional team! The club was formed in 1848, with the football division coming into existence much, much later. But there is no regulation to prevent the football club calling itself ‘1848’ too. Similarly, Bayer 04 Leverkusen didn’t have a football wing when they were formed – Schalke 04 and BV Borussia Dortmund 09 started life as pure football clubs though, as did FC Bayern Munchen – their formation in 1900 has never featured as part of the clubs name though.

  715. Tony Spike Says:

    yeah you need to have the title “bestowed” upon you by the king of Spain before you can use it ……it is a privilege that was once globally revoked causing Real Betis to begin using the name Betis Balompé

    and this fact makes it all the more confusing that Salt Lake use it in a republic (country that has no royal family) thus i refuse to call it them, i know they do it to evoke links to Spain …they even play in red blue and gold …but i just cant do it without feeling im being made an idiot lol

    but sorry Martyn i have to correct you Dynamo is actually to do with a sports club, not a security force

    a quick check of Wikipedia shows that Dresden use of the term stems from their joining Dynamo SC so whilst the TEAMS ORIGIN is secret police related the NAMES ORIGIN isn’t,

    most east European teams (mostly Russian and Hungarian/Ukrainian but including the ex soviet states of East Germany and the Balkans) use it to denote their past membership to the sports club …..i don’t know if their ARE any exceptions or not …but it looks like Dresden isn’t one of them

    its not a practice we have in the UK that i can think of

    Heck my own club (Sheffield Wednesday) was formed in 1867 by The Wednesday Cricket Club ….a club that basically played Cricket on Wednesdays and Football at the weekends …hence the name ….but thats the closest i can think of to a multi sport club in this country

    but some interesting information their though Martyn, i had always wondered why VFL call themselves 1848 despite the fact the oldest club in the world (Sheffield FC….and yes ..i only live a few miles away from them) didn’t come into existence till 1857

  716. Denis Hurley Says:

    Blog post I did on Barcelona’s Kappa kits https://museumofjerseys.com/2016/04/30/barcelona-the-kappa-years/

  717. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thanks Tony. The thing with Dresden was rather confused because the East German FA kept fiddling around with the teams, even making whole teams change name and location. Dresden began life as SC Friedrichstatt, before joining forces (as you said) with the SG Dynamo to form SG Dynamo Dresden. What I was referring to was the origins of the name Dynamo, which were indeed linked to the security forces. Energie (as in Cottbus – another name still used today) were associated with power, Chemie chemical industries, and so on. The trend in England has only started relatively recently, with established football clubs adding other sports to their roster, where it started the opposite way around in Germany.

  718. Tony Spike Says:

    interesting, ….it says here

    The “Dinamo” society was officially created on April 18, 1923 on Felix Dzerzhinsky’s initiative[1] and under the sponsorship of the State Political Directorate (GPU), the Soviet political police, the predecessor of other later created Soviet security structures such as KGB, NKVD and MVD. For the rest of the society’s history in the Soviet period, it maintained some connection with the state security apparatus

    so yes …..i stand corrected, although the KGB and GRU are not security forces per se ….technically thats what we call peace keeping forces like all the troops in afghanistan

    the technical term for the KGB is a secret service unit, more akin to the FBI or the CIA or MI6 than to a fighting unit (although they probably do have a branch like the gestapo or stasi available to them to act on their behalf should the need arise)

    different kettle of fish alltogether

  719. scott grimwood Says:

    Excellent Barca kit blog Denis. Never noticed the goalkeeper kit names thing before.

  720. Denis Hurley Says:

    Cheers Scott, simple idea but effective!

  721. Davidr1986 Says:

    Decided to give myself a little treat this week, after I realised I’d missed the boat with the Hibs away shirt and they no longer have my size, I bought myself the current season Sampdoria home and away shirts which I am buzzing to get through in the post this week!

    I think I’m becoming worryingly addicted to classicfootballshirts after amassing almost the entire player issue Scotland 2013-15 training range!

    Any of you chaps picked up any crackers in past while that may not necessarily be the team you follow?

  722. Martyn Ping Says:

    Tony,
    The history of East German football is long and complicated, with many anomalies. Dresden did have Stasi informers playing for them in the 80’s, but Dynamo Berlin were acknowledged as THE Stasi supported team, to the point that they won several titles in a row (at the expense of Dresden) due to some very dubious decisions…the controversy persists to this day. The siege mentality saw Dresden partially move away from their state sponsored past and gain substantial support, which left them as one of the best supported East German teams when it closed for good. Happily they’ve just been promoted to the second division again.
    David,
    Yes! back in 2007 I had been interested in German football for some 8 years without following a specific team (though I did support all of the teams when they played in Europe). I went into a sport shop and saw the superb Bayern 07/08 shirt(the one with the three broad horizontal stripes on the front). Being as I was so familiar with a whole host of German internationals who were at Bayern, after a brief moment of contemplation, I bought it and have been a supporter ever since. All on the strength of a shirt, and a few players. The name of the team I supported before then has been lost in the sands of time…
    Since then, I’ve bought a Holland shirt with Robben printing and a Switzerland shirt with Shaqiri printing, both because of their Bayern connections (pre Stoke in Shaqiri’s case). I do intend to get a Lewandowski Poland shirt and a Vidal Chile one, though in the latter case it’ll probably be an older Puma one, being as they were better looking than the Nike ones.

  723. HArry Says:

    Any news on the name and number typeset in next season’s PL what with the rebrand?

  724. Tony Spike Says:

    Probly the same as the font on the logo HArry it always is

    Closest i can find is corbel

    What im more interested in is what the champions will wear on their arms will look like

    Congrats to liecester though ….you will be first to wear them

    Ineresting martyn ….verry interesting

    Reminds me of AC Milan being owned by the goverment lol

  725. Denis Hurley Says:

    Thoughts on new Ipswich kits, Scott?

  726. scott grimwood Says:

    blue shorts very controversial but I don’t mind that. the away shirt is superb. home shirt is growing on me. looking on Ipswich’s online shop, the home sock’s are the same as the current one’s and the 2015/16 home short’s are being re-used on the away kit. also the 2015/16 Barcelona style away kit is being retained as a third kit. from what I have heard the new home shirt has had a very mixed response.

  727. John Devlin Says:

    I think the home shirt is nearly brilliant. Love the white sleeves which really freshens up the design but I feel the chevrons just clash with the rest of it – it doesn’t work for me, one element too many.

  728. scott grimwood Says:

    the chevron is the main gripe with most. agree probably one element too many.

  729. Davidr1986 Says:

    Those Ipswich kits are great! Love them both, however are the away shorts just this seasons home shorts?

  730. Martyn Ping Says:

    Home is nice, I like the chevron. Away is just teamwear using common 15/16 template, which is a shame.

    Also, am I to take it that West Brom are a ‘main’ contract now? Their new home kit has the ‘side stripes’?

  731. Martyn Ping Says:

    New home kit unveiled today for VfB Stuttgart – the return of red shoulder stripes – really nice. I beat Footy Headlines to that one!

  732. scott grimwood Says:

    Davidr1986 I believe the Ipswich away short’s are this season’s home ones. Judging by the pictures on their website. Also same home sock’s again as well.

  733. Jon Says:

    Footyheadlines were too busy waxing themselves over Iniesta’s new blackout boots to post news over Stuttgart’s new kit.

    Just a shame it looks likely it’ll be worn in 2. Bundesliga next season.

  734. Denis Hurley Says:

    This is me lamenting the ongoing kit problems in the League of Ireland https://museumofjerseys.com/2016/05/09/the-league-of-ireland-where-things-never-change/

  735. Davidr1986 Says:

    Good article Denis, although it’s not widespread those problems in Scotland it has occurred and mainly my team (Hibs) being the culprits, back in 2000/01 we made Celtic wear their yellow away kit at Celtic Park as our home kit was our usual green with white sleeves and our away kit was white with green trim.

    For about the next 12 or so years after this Hibs came to their senses and when we did have the massively popular white away kits we’d either release or re-use a yellow or black third kit for use at Parkhead, which worked fine.

    last season we had an unusual all bottle green home shirt and a white away shirt which worked fine as we weren’t in same league as Celtic and we sensibly wore white against the many blue to teams in the Championship due to the darkness of our green clashing with the blue/ navy teams.

    Then this season came along and the home shirt stayed bottle green as is has a few times over past 5/6 years and white sleeves were restored and the away is purple which in a league with quite a few navy and blue teams has been a nightmare.

    Early in the season we wore our bottle green shirt at Raith who this season had navy with white sleeves and the two teams totally indistinguishable, the subsequent 3 further visits to Starks Park had us in purple and Raith in their home kit with white socks for the cup game and in their white third kit at home for league and play-off matches!

    Against Queen of the South who this season play in all blue having dropped white shorts from last season and we turned up at Palmerston in all purple which again was a nightmare to distinguish, in our next visit there we wore our normal home kit which wasn’t ideal but was better as it has white shorts and socks which gave just enough contrast to their all blue.

    Versus Falkirk, both teams have used their home kits (bottle green v navy) which hasn’t been ideal and games in which both teams changed for last season, it appears that for referees the white sleeves are sufficient to establish difference between shirts

    http://sportpix.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Raith-Rovers-v-Hibs-Scottish-Championship-24-October-2015/G0000.KeW0JBAjDk/I0000dV_xDszebIA

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34366887

  736. Martyn Ping Says:

    Maddening isn’t it? As a fan of German football, green kits can be problematic. Generally, Werder Bremen have avoided problems by having a black third strip, though this season its officially white, with a purple away. This, combined with white sleeves that actually continue over the shoulder has caused quite a few ‘double clash’ problems. If the Hibs home has to be darker green, stick with a white away, but use a third colour that works against blue – black is a good standby, though against Raith’s navy it wouldn’t have solved it. I’ve always thought that yellow is a good third colour due to its brightness – especially if rendered in flourescence a la Dortmund. Have Hibs ever had a yellow strip? Would you welcome it, if it came out? I think that all yellow with green trim would be very classy – rendered in Puma’s templates with the green bars on the shoulders and sides of the shorts, or adidas with green stripes and tartan shadow pattern (ie Ukraine rendered in yellow and green instead of blue)? Like the sound of that? Whichever way, you need to get rid of Nike.

  737. Martyn Ping Says:

    And on that note, my current kit supplier chart would be as follows (includes next season’s kits as seen so far):
    1. adidas
    2. Kappa
    3. Lotto
    4. Puma
    5. Under Armour
    6. Jako
    7. Umbro
    8. Erima
    9. Saller
    10. Nike

  738. Jon Says:

    To my knowledge Hibs have had a yellow away kit a few times in the 2000’s. I recall a fluorescent yellow fading into black number (not unlike the Man City third kit) being used around 2000, and Le Coq Sportif doing a yellow kit too.

  739. Davidr1986 Says:

    We have had yellow a few times, first appeared in the early 80’s I believe then was brought back in 1998 by Le Coq and had yellow away or third kits in 1999 away, 2003 away, 2004 third (’03 kit with new sponsor), 2008 away, 2010 third & 2012 third.

    Next season we are returning to emerald green after 2 years with bottle green so shouldn’t be the same issue, remains to be seen if the kit is Nike or Avec as we enter the fourth and hopefully final year with Just Sport Pro, hope we see sense and get something like Adidas, Macron or Joma

  740. Tony Spike Says:

    the LOI problem reminds of the situation my aussie mate keeps mentioning on the AFL (aussie rules) uniforms

    a lot of teams use multiple colours and whilst they tend to stick to the colours worn each and every season a lot of teams clash with each other because of the unorthidox kits used

    as for the ipswich kit i think it looks nice, evocative of their 92 premiership kit with the sleeves and an old favorite in suffolk i believe

    one would assume they will either have an all white away kit or a alt set of white shorts no matter what colour the home shorts are

    pity their will be no old farm derby next season lol

    incidentally does anyone have any more info on when those new prem patches and numbers will be revealed? i like HArry wish to know so im just hunting things down now

  741. Tony Spike Says:

    oh @ martyn and david

    the hibs nike deal dosnt run out till 2017 so expect blue or black socks next year with that green home kit since nike are dead set on the opposite socks thing

    though they did black socks last year so i would expect yellow or some other such nonsense instead

  742. Davidr1986 Says:

    I’m not too worried about odd socks next year, I only really expect that to be adopted by ‘proper’ Nike teams, and not subsidiary supplied teams, however I wouldn’t be opposed to green shorts and shorts and white socks, about the only combo we’ve not had in past decade or so!

  743. scott grimwood Says:

    Apparently with Ipswich re-using the Barca style away kit from 15/16 , they are going to wear burgundy shorts and socks instead of the current navy set. Tony Spike Ipswich will probably use the away kit white shorts with the home kit if necessary.

  744. Davidr1986 Says:

    As much as I like that Ipswich away top, it didn’t suit very well with the navy and white short and socks, stripes needed to be yellow

  745. Martyn Ping Says:

    And just when we’d covered the most bonkers non-clashes seen this season…last night, Portsmouth (royal blue / white / red) played Plymouth, who wore an all lilac away strip. Words fail me.

  746. Davidr1986 Says:

    I saw that Martyn, thought it was well times given our discussion on Hibs changing from green to purple v blue teams causing a nightmare! Crazy decision to change from Plymouth.

    Dundee United have unveiled their new kit for next season, they return to all tangerine for the first time in many a year, albeit in circa 2011 they changed mid-season to all tangerine as Just Pro Sport had made a horrible mess of picking them teamwear and they ended up with black shorts with a large white stripe down the side and tried to pair tangerine shorts with a black shirt with white sleeves for the away which just looked ridiculous, barring that season of switching I think 2003 might have been last time the all tangerine look was intentionally first choice!

    They have choosing the ‘fade to black’ sleeve and shorts kit that every contracted Nike team wore this season as third in white for away and in pink for third which doesn’t look that bad

  747. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think that some of the teamwear contracts will fare better than the main ones this coming season; from what I’ve seen the main contracts, again, are on the pedestrian side. At least teamwear kits can be changed with colours etc to make them more unique.

    In a related note, I must say its sad that Chelsea are ending the adidas contract early after this coming season. Since coming in in 2006 adidas have consistently produced strong home, aaway, and thirds. OK, there have been misfires (lime green???), but by and large you can expect the odd one with 3 new kits per year. I shudder that Nike is the favourite to take over at the Bridge.

  748. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    Views on the new Rochdale kits? We very, very rarely wear red – last time was 92/93 – but it’s a great shirt and selling well already.

    http://www.footballkitnews.com/18429/new-rochdale-kits-2016-17-rochdale-afc-errea-shirts-16-17-home-away/

  749. Davidr1986 Says:

    Those Rochdale kits are both cracking! Good
    Work from Errea after a dodgy first year last year with ‘Dale

  750. Martyn Ping Says:

    They’re both nice, but I’ve always had a weakness for a sash! I particularly like the innovative way they’ve got round the sponsor logos running over the sash.

    Speaking of which, the new Palace away is a stunner, isn’t it? shades of old Barca away kits, but you might as well learn from the best! Not sure about the ‘Ajax’ home style yet, but at least its different.

    New PSG home is a big waste of time and effort – it’s virtually identical to last seasons, just with the trim changed slightly.

    Thoughts on our new home? I like it – its totally different from any Bayern home shirt since 05/06, and shows that both FCB and adidas aren’t afraid to reinvent the wheel.

  751. Jon Says:

    So for some reason Dundee United have gone from a Nike template released in 2015 for an older template released in 2014…

    Totally agree about the Pompey v Plymouth game, why couldn’t the Argyle wear their usual bottle green and white stripes? In fact since when has green and blue clashed (except when they’re both very dark tones, like the Hibs v Raith example above)??

  752. Tony Spike Says:

    yeah but plus side martyn chelsea already wear opposite socks so teamwear wont be a problem …..unless they give them the arms in red or something lol

    and that “barca” Ipswich kit had blue shorts and socks, the white ones were from the home set, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they supply a white alternate pair for the new home anyway

    but since that barca kit didnt cover clashes well enough (too much blue) m now expecting that orange third to survive since it wasn’t the same kit that they used last year as an away, and if memory serves Ipswich usually keep kits for 2 seasons

    oh and commiserations to hibs ….looks like Falkirk are meeting rangers

  753. Tony Spike Says:

    oh @ HArry and anyone else who cares

    new EPL patches look to have been leaked, they are the ones that the design studio gave us a prieview of

    https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/s3/dreamteamfc-prod/uploads/2016/04/Premier-League-Patch.jpg

    https://www.idfootballdesk.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/new-epl-badges-16-17.jpg

    font is corbel but if this supposed leak of pumas next arsenal kit is to be believed the numbers and font will be in some sort of wierd corbel/terminator font mix (judging by the A)

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cHWKsUAlFSI/VwZz8AJvn9I/AAAAAAAA10M/j_c_R64NVZkBCq7ni3S1dQ1_CUyBx343g/s1600/navy-shorts-arsenal-16-17-home-kit-3.jpg

  754. Tony Spike Says:

    and here is the front of that kit, but this is where my thery on the numbers falls down because the arm patch is different to the ones that have been leaked ….so again ….everything is speculative at this point

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SpPLgmz5Kco/VwZz8Gkq66I/AAAAAAAA10I/HOpwDo_0mw0C_W2R2XU2yXYiujmijwEvQ/s600/navy-shorts-arsenal-16-17-home-kit-2.jpg

  755. Tony Spike Says:

    ANOTHER UPDATE ….sorry guys (someone put these last three posts together for the love of god lol)

    But that arsenal shirt is definitly wrong according to footy headlines so im now questing the font set used

  756. scott grimwood Says:

    More on Ipswich’s Barca away kit. I was speaking to a friend at our last away game at Derby. Apparently it’s lack of use has been down to football league kit rules. The FL only allow you to use the kit as registered. The shirt was deemed ok but the reason for it’s lack of use were short or sock clashes. As Ipswich didn’t say they would use white short’s or sock’s with it they weren’t allowed to play with any other colour short/sock with the shirt. They had registered an orange third kit so as they weren’t allowed to mix and match the orange kit was used more.

  757. HArry Says:

    I think there’s a distinct chance that the name font will be in lower case (apart from the first letter).

  758. Jon Says:

    Yeah that Arsenal kit is a complete fabrication – there is no way on this earth they would ever jettison white shorts, I think hell would freeze over first. It took them over 30 years to decide to wear navy shorts with the home shirt in their Champions League qualifier with Fenerbahçe a few years ago due to the fact they couldn’t “do an Arsenal” as both their away kits clashed.

    It does seem a bit odd, if it is the case, that the numbering/lettering for the Premier League is retained next season in spite of the new design identity. When the last identity was release in 2007 it was a change across the board with a single typeface used on everything – kit, branding, even TV logos featured the same font. It may be the case that the new numbers/letters haven’t been revealed yet, but we’ll wait and see.

    The new Football League font isn’t that great, but surely has to be better than what they’ve had since 2005.

  759. Tony Spike Says:

    i like the old football league font,

    and like i have said previous im guessing they will go the whole hog and use corbel (or whatever that typeface on the logo is being called …..but its similar to corbel) as the font on the shirts

    @ scott grimwood….yes they would have to register an alt set before they can use them, but they cannot register the home set anymore as they are also blue

    i didnt know they had forgotten to register them in the first place (dont really follow ipswich) but they might have to keep last years white home ones, ……on both kits

    but i dont honestly think it will make a difference though and i dont think registering a white pair this year would have helped it see much action either

    ….as much as i like that barca style away i think any shirt that has blue on it when your home is blue is an idiotic choice all things considered

    yes i know its mostly red, but personally if i was a ref …i wouldn’t let you risk it even if you changed the shorts …thats my take

    so yeah …expect another third

    on another not …..west brom are going for sky blue trim next year ………unusual

    http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/

  760. Tony Spike Says:

    btw …just seen the new football league re-brand

    it looks like a pigging power company logo

    in fact i thought thats what EFL was at first, it looks so close to the EDF Energy logo i though it was a bloody sponsor

    so no …i dont agree with your assessment jon, ….the old branding was much better

    tell you what FL and FA ..next time you want to re-brand come to me, ….not only will i do a better job but i wont charge you 25,000 (i work for beer and nuts) or whatever it is you been paying for any old piece of crap

  761. Jon Says:

    I just didn’t like the font the FL used on the kit – but the new rebranding exercise looks worse every time I see it. Naff logo and branding.

    EFL… that a possible subliminal message telling Cardiff City and Newport County to do one?

  762. Davidr1986 Says:

    I’ve not seen the new FL branding but I really liked the name and number font used for past decade or so!

  763. Ali Says:

    @748 As a fellow Rochdale guy, was disappointed that neither of the striped home options won; also liked the green away, but overall the final kits are pretty good

    Re Premier League kit font, it seems unlikely, but what I would really like to see is what they do in Ligue 1, where everybody wears the same font style, but adjusted specifically to the club’s colours, instead of shirts having to accomodate a stupidly small number of fixed colour options

  764. Davidr1986 Says:

    Saw the England squad announcement, notice that a few of the players sporting long sleeve shirts, a welcome return after a few years without! Hopefully for English l/s fans they’ll produce replica versions!

  765. Tony Spike Says:

    ali, the premier league has been doing that with their font and numbers for years technically just not so personalized that they don’t give clubs a choice of colours, its mostly the clubs that choose and i don’t see why that should change

    west brom wear red fronts (probably sky blue next year given the trim) stoke wear blue fonts on their red and white stripes and most teams wear whatever colour stands out the most ……this just makes more sense to me

    but they did kind of do it before they introduced a standardized font (Manchester United 1998 away font was black with a red border)

    i do however like the MLS sleeve patches and how those get customized so its not as if i don’t think it would work

    i just cant see how its any more different from what is currently in place

  766. Denis Hurley Says:

    @David, is the lower part of the sleeves white?

  767. Davidr1986 Says:

    @denis the sleeves are all striped

  768. scott grimwood Says:

    Davidr1986 on the first night of the kit launch England U21’s wore long sleeved shirt’s. The same night the senior team wore base layers under their shirts including the goalkeeper. I would welcome an England long sleeve replica as well.

  769. Davidr1986 Says:

    Hopefully they will release them in l/s, I’m still annoyed that Scotland don’t have any form on l/s at all now, even for players, we’ve went from having Adizero players shirts and climacool replicas in both s/s and l/s to climacool all round with no l/s option at all

  770. Denis Hurley Says:

    France wore their away kit in long-sleeved format too.

    I’m amazed that England were allowed to have white BLs, unless it’s just the case that the ‘proper’ ones weren’t ready. As it stands, BLs and long sleeves can’t be worn together

  771. Nick Durham Says:

    The new Football League name and numbers are a nice design, if a little spoiled by those dots running through them. Though they’re definitely an improvement on the 05-16 typeset. But let’s be honest – they couldn’t be any worse! Those were blocky, difficult to read and just plain ugly. The first batch of standardised FL numbering was much, much nicer to look at.

    As for the new Premier League badges…what a shame. Since the inception of the Premier League, its badges stood apart from the designs used by other leagues around the world. It says something that most of these designs seen elsewhere were distinctly unmemorable, while each update to the PL sleeve patch was subtle, because that’s all it needed.

    I could dip my toes into pop culture to emphasise what a total misfire the new badge is. But I won’t. However I will say that by opting for a circular badge its designers have nudged it quietly into the crowd along with all the other pretenders. Shame.

  772. Martyn Ping Says:

    I kinda like the new round badges – reminds me a little of the old FL badges pre-Premiership. In the Bundelsiga it’s been a rectangle with a silhouette of a footballer taking a shot for probably ten years now. I think it replaced the old ‘swirly flag colours’ one when the ‘Championship stars’ were brought in in 06/07. There’s a special one for Bayern next season to mark 25 Bundesligas. Normally it says ‘Deutscher Meister’ and the year, with the colour changing from red to gold – next year it’ll be gold with a ’25’ logo underneath it.

  773. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just saw leaked pictures of the new Arsenal third…OK, given that the away strip is, by all accounts, going to be yellow and grey, am I alone in seeing the potential hazards of a navy and yellow third? Also, the yellow used on the third is SO bright I think it overpowers the whole strip, especially with all logos being rendered in it. So basically they’ll have a yellow away and a yellow third, or at least that’ll be the impression on TV. I can’t see a massive problem with double clashes, being as a yellow and grey away should cover every eventuality, but still, another major kit contract and another superfluous third strip. Makes my blood boil.

    I see that the ref’s and assistants had their away socks on for the EL final last night!

  774. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    The away kit is yellow the third kit navy with yellow trim, what is the issue?

  775. Martyn Ping Says:

    It’s not a problem per se, my issue is that the trim colour (yellow)is such a fluorescent shade that it overpowers the navy. I see the exact same problem this coming season with Dortmund’s home and away – the home has black stripes on it, where the away has horizontal yellow stripes – perhaps a cunning plan to get the third strip some action at last? The Arsenal one would have been better IMO if a different second colour had been used on the third strip – perhaps a lighter blue / turquoise? Arsenal have used that combo before. Why use such a bright version of the main away colour on the third as trim?

  776. Tony Spike Says:

    @Nick Durham …naaah i hated the 2000 football league sets they were too plain and boring

    and the 05 set wasnt all that hard to read …for me at least …but i mostly liked the gold outline, the new sets are just too pedestrian

    in other news their could be an expansion by the looks

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/english-football-league-refuses-rule-8008300#6k2RRW4ZTuUuraJ4.97

  777. Denis Hurley Says:

    I don’t think there’s any fear of Arsenal actually *needing* a third, so any worries about the similarities of third (I can’t see them myself) are moot.

    Any truth to the rumour that Spurs won’t have a first or second kit this season and will just use their third? It’s a state they seem to enjoy

  778. tony Says:

    Arsenal use the 3rd shirt as the Cups away shirt now anyway.

  779. ciaran Says:

    Must say I’m Very impressed with the new Saint Etienne Le Coq Sportif home shirt.

    http://www.footballshirtculture.com/16/17-Kits/as-saint-etienne-16-17-le-coq-sportif-home-kit.html

  780. Martyn Ping Says:

    Sorry, just me being picky – I don’t like it when a main colour from an away shirt is used on a third strip – I still believe they should be completely different and distinguishable. This ‘cup strip’ rubbish really irritates me. At least Bayern, who market the third strip as an ‘international’ strip (sold without the domestic team name on the back)make no bones about it BEING a third strip, a logical approach given their traditional away colours are white so a dark third kit is always needed. I know we haven’t always got it right, but since 2007 the cycle of red / white / dark (either grey, navy or black) as three kits have covered every eventuality. I would compare the Arsenal situation to the first year of Warrior’s contract with Liverpool, when the away was black and grey and the third was black, white and purple – similarly Spurs with the black and grey third with a navy away.

    AND ANOTHER THING – solid coloured backs with striped teams…This is apparently another nonsense regulation to come out to aid legibility??? I personally think the best approach has always been to have a square section for the number and a rectangular area for the name, with the stripes around it. Nike in 2006 had some particularly neat solutions to this. Failing that, a colour that is different from the two used on the stripes (red being quite common) was the standard for decades. My personal favourite was the Kappa Juventus kits of the late 90’s, the one where the stripes formed an arch that housed the name and number on the back. Also Newcastle’s first adidas strip from 95 – with the bespoke adidas typeface (pre Prem typeface) rendered in WHITE…The way adidas positioned the numbers meant that legibility was NEVER a problem. So why now? That Milan home for this coming season is an absolute disgrace. It might as well be all black. What was ever the problem with black and red stripes and white numbers? And where have the white shorts and socks gone? The silver grey names and numbers will actually be LESS legible in rain, on dark days, possibly even under floodlights. Pretty much everything, really.

  781. Martyn Ping Says:

    Tony,
    I see the PL has indicated that despite changing the sleeve badge, the name and number font will remain the same.

    Good luck in the PO Final!

  782. Denis Hurley Says:

    Odd isn’t it, Martyn? Especially with the older lion on the numbers.

  783. Martyn Ping Says:

    Personally, I preferred the first set of PL names and numbers – didn’t they come in for 98/99?

    I know I’ve been a huge critic of Nike’s recent output, but that Turkey home is a work of beauty – easily the best strip that they’ve done since the glory years of 98-06 IMO.

  784. Jon Says:

    I really hate solid backs on stripes/hoops/etc., all this talk that they improve legibility of shirt numbers for the sake of being seen easily on television is nonsense. There was no problem at all with a square patch around the number, and Juventus had it the right way when Kappa made their kit in the 90’s, by having the number in a black patch with the name rendered in a white patch. Even Nike replicated this in the 13/14 season, which worked well.

    The excuse of it makes it easier to see on TV is nonsense – I had no problem picking out Celtic players on a small fuzzy 21″ TV back in the day. Yet now as we have 4K TV’s it’s suddenly a problem. Absolute BALDERDASH!

    The excuse for plain backs is worse when two dark colours are involved, like Milan’s red and black stripes.

    Nike’s new kits – well the least said the better, they are awful and the contrasting socks has to be the worst kit “innovation” in the last 20 years. Turkey’s kit may look the best of them I agree, but it definitely ain’t a Turkey kit… all red with a white chest band is what I associate with them.

  785. Denis Hurley Says:

    Jon – fairly sure the rule was relaxed on stripes where two dark colours feature, this might just be an adidas thing.

  786. Jon Says:

    That’s what I thought, but have seen a number of dark or light two colour shirts with plain backs on them.

    Not sure why Adidas have done this considering Milan’s kit has had stripes on the back since time began, even including the ugly 07/08 kit that had a massive red bit where the name and number went.

  787. Jon Says:

    Martyn – you’re a year out, the first league-wide numbers/name set was introduced in the Premier League for the 97/98 season.

  788. Denis Hurley Says:

    Barcelona from season just gone: http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/luis-suarez-of-fc-barcelona-celebrates-with-lionel-messi-news-photo/529028732

    And Inter, with pinstripes same colour as numbers http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/andrea-ranocchia-and-juan-pablo-carrizo-of-fc-news-photo/465995090

    Must be manufacturers’ whim – Basel, made by adidas, had plain navy backs http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/goalkeeper-juan-pablo-of-tel-aviv-makes-a-save-marek-suchy-news-photo/484513344

  789. Tony Spike Says:

    @ martyn ….thanks we will need it, looks like the alt white shorts we last wore against hull are getting recycled for the match too so that will be interesting

    as for the EPL font set i just saw an tweet stating that arsenal were soon to reveal their home kit, the pic has a generic puma font on it

    https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13230147_10155056399659657_2075617681499139457_n.jpg?oh=d0ffd03a29b8a673631a206ce0b58bc8&oe=57E610A3

    the actual reveal itself dosnt though and neither does the pics with the old font on (about a players number change) so i would take it with a pinch of salt

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/01/arsenal-16-17-home-kit-leaked.html

    love the 90s style inspiration on the collar

    @ dennis hurley …….one would think they would update the old numberset with the new logo if they keep it rather than keep the old one …….. that’s a no brainer if im honest, i cant see them keeping the old logo on the font

  790. Davidr1986 Says:

    After having just about sobered up from the weekend it’s now almost strange to think that this seasons Hibs kit of a slightly modified teamwear shirt only available in s/s paired with the previous seasons home shorts and white socks with a black stripe down the side even though black is featured nowhere else on the kit, will now go down as one of most fondly remembered kits of all time!

  791. Jon Says:

    Footy Headlines in not going on about *insert player name here* in blackout/previously unseen/outlandish colour boots shocker, but they had some news on Newcastle’s new kits, and for the second season running their change kits are pointless.

    They’re only based on mock leak details but the away shirt is navy, and the third is white. And spoilt with a parasitic loan shark company’s new logo.

  792. Martyn Ping Says:

    Funnily enough I was just going to mention that Jon. I’ve never understood Newcastle wearing navy or black away shirts and white thirds. The home kit is ruined by the W****a logo completely. Why can’t the yellow and green make a comeback? what will they wear at Derby next season, especially if the Rams have black sleeves or pinstripes or similar?

    For a bit of nostalgic fun, I’m just watching the 6 DVD ‘Best of Bayern’ set, and I see in the early 90’s Dinamo Kiev were supplied by Umbro and used the pinstripe kit as used by Forest and many others. Also Bordeaux in ’96 using the Asics pinstripe (from Blackburn’s away strip of 94/95) not in the familiar navy but dark red with a blue pinstripe, paired with white shorts. Very odd.

  793. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Red socks for the Woolwich Wanderers? They’ve worn these in kit unveils before but reverted to white come the start of the season.

  794. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thought that was strange myself. Thought Wenger insisted on white?

  795. Martyn Ping Says:

    Oh, and Jon (784) – the Turkey home I agree isn’t traditional. At all. But on the other hand, if you are going to change established international colours it’s best to try something interesting rather than stupidly mis-matched socks or the like. The Croatia ones are the only other Nike ones I like.

  796. Denis Hurley Says:

    They wore that colour for a while in the 90s, Martyn: http://www.fanfoot51.com/dessins%20maillots/Bordeaux/bordeaux90.html

  797. Martyn Ping Says:

    Thanks, Denis. Being as my interest in European football only started in the late 90’s, I’ve only ever been used to them in Navy – was there a reason they changed to red?

  798. Martyn Ping Says:

    Apologies to our Hibs fan but the Rangers kits are really nice – especially the away – I must admit I’ve always had a soft spot for quartered strips.

  799. Davidr1986 Says:

    That’s if The Rangers wear them! There’s talk of them refusing to wear their new kits in protest to Mike Ashley!

  800. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just seen pre release marketing pic of the new Barcelona kit – nice, and a welcome return to something a bit more traditional. The only thing I don’t like about it is the slightly darker shade of blue used on the sleeves – I know I’m being picky, but it looks odd as it isn’t repeated elsewhere on the strip. I would’ve thought it would be logical to make the shorts the slightly darker shade too, or **radical idea** use THE SAME SHADE OF BLUE THROUGH THE WHOLE STRIP!!!

  801. Denis Hurley Says:

    There was a team in Germany this season who had two shades of red Martyn, were you a fan of that? ;)

  802. Martyn Ping Says:

    Mmmm, yes, Denis, very sharp. In Bayern’s case it was two shades used throughout the strip, where the Barcelona one uses two shades of blue, one for the stripes and one for the arms. Similar, but not the same. What irritates is the Bayern kit used the darker red as trim, where the Barca one uses a darker blue for one whole area. They used navy in a much better way in ’02, because it continued onto the shorts. I just reckon it looks a bit unbalanced, that’s all. I’m willing to stick my neck out and say that if adidas supplied Barca none of this controversy would occur.

  803. Jon Says:

    I’ve seen the new Rangers kits, obviously looked into the past for inspiration – home is the 84-87 kit, away is the 95/96 adidas quartered kit and the third is based on Nike’s away kit from 99/00. However, I think the third kit is kinda pointless due to the amount of white on it given its prominence on the away kit.

    I quite like the new Barça kit, reminds me of the revised version of Meyba’s shirts from the late 80’s/early 90’s. Never really noticed the sleeves were in a slightly different shade of blue until now. Far better than 95% of the new Nike kits

  804. scott grimwood Says:

    Too much white on both Barnsley’s and Millwall’s sock’s. A clash in my opinion. Both with hooped sock’s.

  805. Davidr1986 Says:

    If agree with Scott to an extent, whilst it could’ve been worse if the Millwall socks were fully hooped, Barnsley could’ve made everyone’s life easier by using the current season socks.

    I saw the official release pics of the new Barça kit, please tell me it’ll remain sponsorless on the chest! Agree with Martyn that the darker blue sleeves would’ve worked better if they done what they did in early-mid 2000’s and continued the darker blue into shorts and socks

    Either way I like the ‘Meyba-esque’ detailing in the stripes and most importantly thank god they are back to stripes after that hooped abomination this year!

  806. Jon Says:

    Meanwhile, on “BootLovers.com”……

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/05/premier-league-bans-striped-backs.html

    13 years after UEFA enforced this pathetic rule for the myopic TV audience, the Pr£mi£r L£agu£ follow suit, even though the same font hasn’t caused any issue since it was first used in 2007.

  807. Davidr1986 Says:

    leaving aside the argument of requirement, I dont mind back patches to an extent, however i really hate it when teams have a striped front and a totally plain back

    going off topic, seen a few pics of goalkeepers in past wearing different branded shirts to their team-mates, got me thinking, when did that come to an end?

    in my time viewing Hibs i can remember John Burridge (very vaguely!) occasionally wearing Uhlsport jerseys http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/john-burridge-in-action-for-hibernian-mandatory-credit-ben-news-photo/1530404 however he also regularly sported the regular Adidas shirt, the now classic Taifun; hhttp://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-150292-scottish-cup-fourth-round-clydebank-v-hibs-1-5-kilbowie-park-28648876.html

    subsequent Goalkeepers Chris Reid and Jim Leighton wore standard kits at all times and then the last Hibs player to wear his own shirts was Bryan Gunn in 1998 who can be seen here (just) http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-250498-bells-premier-divsion-celtic-v-hibs-0-0-celtic-park—gla-28604390.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=5307F5BF-EDC9-4916-9DE9-634AFFF1E9B9&p=86179&n=4&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26sortby%3d2%26qt%3dbryan%2520gunn%26qt_raw%3dbryan%2520gunn%26qn%3d%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26aoa%3d1%26creative%3d%26videos%3d%26nu%3d%26ccc%3d%26bespoke%3d%26apalib%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26ot%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26archive%3d1%26name%3d%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26userid%3d%26id%3d%26a%3d%26xstx%3d0%26cbstore%3d0%26lightbox%3d%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26apalic%3d%26tbar%3d1%26pc%3d%26simid%3d%26cap%3d1%26customgeoip%3d%26vd%3d0%26cid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26t%3d0%26edoptin%3d wearing a Reusch jersey whilst the outfielders sported Mitre

    another 1990’s goalkeeper kit anomoly i have spotted is multiple brands using the same fabric pattern but with different overall shirts, you can see that the Mitre 1995 Hibs shirt (never used in action) Jim Leighton is posing in here http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/mandatory-credit-allsport-uk-allsport-news-photo/1618624 is clearly the same fabric pattern as Nicky Byrne is wearing in his O’Neills Cobh Ramblers shirt in 1997 https://mobile.twitter.com/CobhRamblersFC/status/363324644549746689 however the overall shirts with look totally different with v-neck and all black sleeves in the O’Neills version and round neck and all over pattern in the Mitre one

    this can be seen again in 1997 where the Hibs’ Mitre shirt is the ‘same but different’ as the Leicester Fox Leisure GK kit http://soccersignatures.co.uk/Kasey-Keller1 http://edinburgh.stv.tv/articles/275881-hibernian-supporters-want-to-beat-hamilton-like-airdrieonians-in-97/

  808. Davidr1986 Says:

    http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-150292-scottish-cup-fourth-round-clydebank-v-hibs-1-5-kilbowie-park-28648876.html

    corrected link!

  809. Martyn Ping Says:

    Ban on striped backs is pathetic. I agree that an ideal solution hasn’t always been found with contrasting numbers laid on the stripes, but many kit suppliers over the years (adidas, Nike and Kappa, to name but three) have found innovative ways to house the fonts. And if its a dark colour or colours anyway, such as Milan and Inter, then using white has never presented a problem. And who does it benefit? The refs have never complained, and I can think of only a few cases over the years where legibility has been a problem on TV. Yes, it is probably commerce based – recognition for well known, leading players – though I do wonder how this will filter down to the FL, if at all. And – what about Argentina? will they have to have a white or sky blue back from now on? I fear thats what we’re heading for. Basically, its rubbish.

  810. Jon Says:

    In addition to that, the monochrome kits at international level is another issue spoiling football kits. Will be interesting to see what colour combinations are used in Euro 2016.

    I’m guessing for our game with the old enemy on 16th June, UEFA will no doubt force us to wear all red, and them lot in all white.

    And on the subject of Welsh kits, check out this feature on Shakey (who has commented on here in the past) and his Welsh shirt collection.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36267170

  811. Denis Hurley Says:

    Worse, Jon – according to Shakey, Wales will be in their away kit!

  812. Jon Says:

    Can’t see why them lot can’t wear white-blue-white as they should be (instead of the Nike contrasting socks nonsense), and we wear red-white-red.

    Damn you UEFA, think I might take my 55″ Ultra HD TV back to the shop and buy a 14″ black and white set.

  813. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think logic deserted the second Nike thought it would be a good idea to ditch traditional colour schemes and replace them with nonsense. OK, so England can look OK in all white. Fine – do all white. But red socks? If they MUST do it, surely blue with the home would be better? Instead, they have this hideous mis match. Wales on the other hand have done all red, red white red, and red white white, so if UEFA make them change their socks and/or shorts, it won’t be too bad. Making them wear their away kit would be madness. Which means it will probably happen, obviously.

  814. Jon Says:

    We should only be wearing our away kit if we play another team in red. Simples.

  815. Martyn Ping Says:

    I completely agree, but as we know, UEFA and FIFA live on a different planet from us mere mortals…just like when they insisted on Spain bringing out a needless third kit for the last World Cup.

  816. Martyn Ping Says:

    What are they thinking? Part 1500 : That new Galatasaray home shirt. You wouldn’t think it would be possible to screw up red and yellow halves, but, oh yes…Its NIKE again!!! using that thin line effect (as per the equally inept England / France / USA sleeves) HURTS MY EYES! Nike have done some REALLY nice kits since taking over the Gala contract, but this is…I can’t say it anymore without sounding like a broken record. Are Nike’s designers even capable of just doing a, y’know, nice kit anymore? will they forever ruin established colour schemes and vomit on tradition? I suspect they will because even though the current crop are a sorry bunch they’ll likely sell by the bucket load due to the ‘swoosh factor’ and countless top player endorsements.

    In a related note, now that Umbro have extricated themselves from the mess of Nike ownership, is it just me, or are they getting stronger every year? Their first few kits as a reborn indie were a bit safe, but now they’re coming out with some interesting ideas. That new West Ham home is a bit classy, and while many will question the validity of celebrating a new stadium on a shirt, I like the subtle use of the Union Jack on the sleeve hems. Very good. Keep it up, Umbro!

  817. Jon Says:

    Personally I would love to see Umbro making the Wales kits once again. They made some decent shirts in the most recent spell (2010-2013), particularly the 2012 home shirt with the yellow and green stripe on the front.

    I do like the current adidas kits but they pale in comparison, and seeing as you can only get them from JD Sports it seems, the £55 asking price is quite frankly ridiculous.

  818. Martyn Ping Says:

    Best to stick to retro methinks…I will always defend adidas but I have to admit their kits for Wales haven’t been great. Best kits for ‘Y Draig Goch’ in my opinion are the early 80’s adidas, later period (94) Umbro, first wave of Lotto, and first wave of Kappa. Being as suppliers are dealing with a proud and patriotic nation like Wales it seems strange that the kits don’t seem that evocative. I do like the ones with large areas of green (either pinstripes or trim), and the most recent Umbro era featured what seems an obvious, but surprisingly ignored away shirt – green and white halves. That is the most patriotic choice of all, being as it’s taken from the flag itself.

  819. Tony Spike Says:

    @Martyn, its supposed to be a call back to the kit we wore when we beat Brazil and John Barnes scored

    completely forgetting that we only changed both our shorts and socks for that game cos …ya know …it was the maracana, and Brazil wear blue shorts and white socks

    it was function …not a fashion statement

    and whilst memorable its not exactly a good reason to frig with tradition

    whats next ……oh i know …pair the white home with sky blue socks and shorts to mimic the kit we wore against Argentina in 86

    dosnt matter that we were using the set from the unused third kit to avoid a clash, dosnt matter that we didn’t win that game, just do it anyway cos it was unusual

    here is an idea nike …lets ..not

  820. Tony Spike Says:

    jon …..i dont think we have a set of white home socks

    just the blue away ones, or we would have worn them in the first game

  821. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    I believe it is a homage to Liverpool in the 1976 Charity Shield

    http://www.mirror-photos.co.uk/liverpool-v-southampton-charity-shield/print/66595.html

  822. Denis Hurley Says:

    Irony being that that Liverpool mash-up was arguably the clashiest against Southampton

  823. Martyn Ping Says:

    Still looks wrong to me. I think arguably the only ‘odd sock’ Nike kit that looks good is the France home – and then only because they have historically worn red anyway. I’m a traditionalist – to me England home should always be white / blue / white and red / white / red away.

    It’s preposterous (though hardly surprising) that Wales are in their away kit against England. We all said it – we were all right.

    For the record, Germany wore black socks up until ’66, so the recent change back is not a Nike like piece of suppliers whim. I never liked them in white shorts, and for me, green / white / green is the away colours they should be in. The Euro ’12 away strip was pretty close to perfect.

  824. Denis Hurley Says:

    I think Germany in black socks is a manufacturer’s whim, given that it follows the white shorts look. Not as if there was a queue of people demanding a return to a ‘traditional’ look

  825. Martyn Ping Says:

    True, and the other reason, ie and anniversary of a famous tournament, doesn’t apply. However, I genuinely think that after the all white strip, which wasn’t particularly traditional, adidas wanted a return to something that, without a doubt, had its foot in the past. So while it was down to a whim of adidas in the strictest sense, I think they did it with the best intentions. Also, memories of ’10, when they seemed to play better in an improvised all black strip, possibly influenced the choice. Although the shirt stays white, the rest of the strip is 60% there. Still not sure about the away strip though. They may be wearing that tonight against Poland.

  826. Tony Spike Says:

    nope white black black tonight mate

  827. Tony Spike Says:

    and no andy …..its the brazil kit, it has been said so in press releases

  828. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, I read that too, Tony. Its rubbish, isn’t it? It takes tenuous connections to an all new level. So a strip aimed at a huge amount of people, sales wise, is based on one from a famous game over 30 years ago, that was a friendly anyway…As you said, if they were going to change to any strip, surely the sky blue shirts worn against Argentina would be it, being as it was a close game and actually meant something. Nope, the most famous victories by the England team were achieved in traditional home or away colours. So I’m thinking :
    ’66 vs West Germany – red/white/red; ’90 vs West Germany – white/blue/white; ’96 vs Holland – white/blue/white; ’01 vs Germany – white/blue/white. Even all white would be better – historical matches such as the ’66 match against Argentina and the ’01 qualifier vs Greece were played in change shorts, as well as Bobby Moore’s (by his own admission) best ever game, against Pele’s Brazil, in ’70. According to Nike, all of these matches pale into insignificance when compared with a meaningless friendly played in the home stadium of a team a decade and a half after their third world title and a decade before their fourth. ie not top tier at the time. Just proves that Nike don’t have a clue, again.

  829. Denis Hurley Says:

    Not sure how to break it to you, Martyn – England didn’t win against West Germany in 1990!

  830. Martyn Ping Says:

    Good point denis! I meant ‘performances’, not victories! :-)

  831. Martyn Ping Says:

    I see Turkey had the away shorts on against Spain last night – didn’t look too bad, and proves that Wales could have worn red / grey / grey rather than the needless use of the whole away strip.

  832. Denis Hurley Says:

    I thought it looked fairly horrific

  833. Martyn Ping Says:

    I’ve seen worse! Bayern’s gold away shirt of 04/06 worn on occasion with the white shorts and socks from the 05/06 home kit for one!

    I just meant, considering, that a mostly white shirt worn with plain black shorts could’ve been worse – and the red stripe down the side at least tied in with the socks. As a cobbled together strip it wasn’t too bad.

  834. Martyn Ping Says:

    With Nike set to take over the Chelsea deal from 17/18, and given their bizarre sock thing at the moment (and equally tenuous reasoning behind it), I was wondering – will they switch Chelsea to yellow socks in a tribute to the 1970 FA Cup winning side???? :)

  835. scott grimwood Says:

    Martyn nike probably would put them back to blue in some kind of reverse logic.

  836. Jon Says:

    Wales will be wearing red tonight against Russia after an agreement was made between the two associations. Apparently we were set to wear the dark grey away kit again, but Russia were going to wear their white away kit (due to UEFA’s finicky 67 page documentation about kits).

    Hope it is a good omen for us to be wearing red.

  837. Martyn Ping Says:

    Logic rules at the Euros! Spain v Croatia last night, both in their (complete) away kits. No forced third kit, no messing around. This sort of thing obviously works best for International teams, but in a case where both Spain kits would clash with Croatia’s home I think it was a perfect solution. The teams were easy to tell apart too.

    Just seen a leak of Hertha BSC’s new home shirt – very nice. Sponsor works, and the stripes are two broad navy ones on the chest (loved it a few years back when Newcastle did the same) with navy sleeves. That’s the only iffy part – Hertha are historically mid or royal blue, now they’ve come over a bit West Brom!

  838. Martyn Ping Says:

    *I should say that the Newcastle one was of course, in black. It was the adidas one with NTL sponsorship, when the late, great, and sorely missed Bobby Robson and Gary Speed were at the club.

  839. Martyn Ping Says:

    New Man City shirt – more leaked pics. I can stomach sky blue shorts, because they’ve worn them before. I can stomach white socks, because despite what ‘a certain site’ says, they’ve worn them before (95-97, to name but one), but the ‘England style’ sleeves just take away from what a classic City home strip should be. Umbro mostly got it right, Reebok cracked it every time, even Le Coq Sportif and Kappa, with the ‘laser blue’ and navy experiments, nonetheless did some nice. interesting kits that were definitely City. Nike, despite my criticism of the marque, have done some nice home kits, at least (though the away’s have been pretty naff). But this new one…I just don’t like those sleeves. Don’t work on England, France, USA, and now City. Why do this washed out gradient effect? why not solid colour? City with white sleeves, sky shorts, and white socks IMO would look stunning, as would the (unveiled) version of France’s away. Nike experimented a lot back in 98-06, but more often than not the experiments worked. Now? If they do straightforward designs (like most of their teamwear catalogue for this coming season) then they’re not bad, but wishy washy sleeves, fluorescent kits that look like they’ve been dipped in an oil drum, and suddenly deciding that one of the most iconic striped strips in European football needs to become hoops…design disasters one and all. I can’t help thinking that the teamwear clubs are the ones that do better these days.

  840. Jon Says:

    Whoever at Nike had this idea of contrasting socks needs to be shot. I’m sorry but they really do, the sleeves on the shirts are bad enough. White socks…. seriously??? Looks like the time when you forget your PE kit at school and have to take whatever is available from the school sports gear.

    I hear Chelsea are wearing Nike from 2017, I wonder if Nike will kit them out in BLUE socks?????

  841. Martyn Ping Says:

    Knowing Nike, my money is on red.

  842. Martyn Ping Says:

    It now seems that the Hertha home kit will have royal blue stripes and navy sleeves. Nike…Grrrrrrrr

  843. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think the only context in which this contrasting sock thing works is a paler colour. So Man City WITHOUT the sleeves being darker will theoretically be OK. They have flirted with navy socks in the past, but that would only work with navy on the shirt and white shorts. Its all too much – why not stick with all sky blue? The England home and away kits have looked wrong since day one. All white – yes; white navy white – yes; white navy navy – yes. All of these have found use over the years. But white white red? the blue used on the away socks is too royal – navy would’ve worked better, but all red better still.

  844. Martyn Ping Says:

    New shirt leak for Newcastle :

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/12/newcastle-uniteds-16-17-home-kit-could-be-classy.html

    With all the recent controversy about the backs of striped shirts, I thought this was rather neat. Of course, it wouldn’t be allowed in the PL, but sanity will at least prevail in the Championship. Less said about the sponsor, the better, but as it is apparently coming to an end after next season I can tolerate it. I’d love to see the return of the old Newcy Brown logo, but I realise that booze related sponsorship is somewhat out of vogue now.

  845. Denis Hurley Says:

    Why wouldn’t it be tolerated in the PL, Martyn?

  846. Martyn Ping Says:

    Because I heard last week that they’re banning striped backs, presumably starting with this coming season. I took it to mean ALL striped backs, even partial ones with the stripes at the bottom. So all striped teams, Southampton, Sunderland, Stoke, Bournemouth, and presumably Hull if they’re striped again will have totally solid backs. Apparently.

  847. Martyn Ping Says:

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/05/premier-league-bans-striped-backs.html

  848. Martyn Ping Says:

    *Sorry WBA fans!

  849. Denis Hurley Says:

    But look at what that Stoke statement said: “As the Premier League are looking to introduce a rule to enforce squad number visibility to complement UEFA’s rules for clubs playing in European competition…”

    Read Article 10 here of the UEFA rules – http://ffm.mk/media/files/UEFa-Kit-Regulations-Edition-2012_en.pdf – all it says is that the box for the number must be 25-35cm high. Anything extra is the choice of the club or the manufacturer.

    Newcastle’s shirt definitely fits in with these guidelines, and if the PL are complementing UEFA’s rules, there no indication that they’ll require a larger clear area.

    As a journalist covering a lot of games, striped or hooped shirt with no box for the numbers are not fun. What else do numbers exist for, if not for identification?

  850. Martyn Ping Says:

    Agreed, I’ve always preferred a block of solid colour to house the number and name, preferably in a colour that stands out. I think this originates from yet more Uefa nit picking, and I have heard it said that they’re going to implement it everywhere, regardless of what is in their rulebook. I just think it ruins the look of a shirt – the stripes / hoops should continue around, leaving the aforementioned inverted ‘t’ for the name/number. After all, in the ‘good old days’, teams used to sew a square on top of the stripes, onto which the number sat. The only exception, of course, was Celtic, who refused to break up their hoops with a number, hence the number being on the shorts. The fact that pretty soon they’ll have a solid white back without a hint of green on it I just find sad.

  851. Kitclashes Matt Says:

    But when teams have stripes that don’t require a break in stripes for the number to be clearly visible, why do they have to have plain backs?

    eg. Bournemouth who can have white numbers.

    Will Barca have to wear shirts with plain backs even though their shirts can house yellow numbers with no issues on visibility?

  852. Martyn Ping Says:

    I have had the exact same thought about Milan’s. For decades white numbers were fine, because they sat perfectly on red and black. Same as white, or occasionally yellow for Inter, yellow for Barca, etc. But in the case of Milan, they have black backs for next season, and have bizarrely retained silver grey names and numbers, meaning that on dark, overcast days, or when it’s been raining, they’ll be more or less invisible. Bayern had a similar problem when our numbers were gold. According to the rumours, and if they’re correct, Bournemouth will have to have black backs with white numbers. Granted, that will make them 100% visible from all angles, but where has this regulation come from? Refs usually know who they’re booking and which team they play for, and surely that was the whole idea of having short numbers as a standard feature across Europe (a practice I welcome, by the way)? I love football, but I wish the muppets who run the game would stop treating us all like idiots.

  853. Denis Hurley Says:

    Barcelona in 2015-16 had hooped backs http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/529028732

    It was their away kit, where the red-on-yellow stripes seemed to only be where the number was, that was problematic.

    Bournemouth have a striped back on replica shirts anyway http://superstore.afcb.co.uk/afc-bournemouth/mens-home-shirt-16-17-red-black-10312.html

  854. scott grimwood Says:

    If I remember, up to at least 2008/09 both Barca and Inter had plain backed shirt’s . Barca blue and Inter black. Although they did have a little bit of stripe on the bottom of the shirt.

  855. scott grimwood Says:

    For European games I should have added.

  856. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah that’s right, at least they did belatedly see sense

  857. Jon Says:

    Whoever at UEFA (or even FIFA) had this idea for plain backs on shirts should be shot. A pathetic regulation.

    As I’ve said millions of times previously, I never had any issues identifying Celtic players on a dodgy cathode ray tube TV set in years gone by.

  858. Jon Says:

    Belgium wearing their away kit tonight against Hungary – a game of interest for Welsh viewers as we face the winners in the quarter finals.

    The other matter of interest for kit aficionados is that Hungary are wearing their traditional tricolour (red-white-green), but Belgium are wearing light blue shorts. Not just is that interesting as the away shorts are usually black, but the shade of light blue is very light that it almost looks like white.

  859. Martyn Ping Says:

    It’s based on Belgium’s Tour De France livery apparently.

  860. Jon Says:

    Yeah it’s quite a smart kit, just strange they’re not wearing the first-choice away kit shorts for a pair that practically clashes with Hungary’s white shorts (if we use UEFA’s rules as a guide).

    Though what’s with the size of those shorts numbers, almost like the size of Celtic’s short numbers from the old days!

  861. Jon Says:

    It wouldn’t surprise me if Belgium wear the sky blue kit against us on Friday, given both our home and away kits would clash with their red and black shirts.

    That’s unless UEFA be real proper poopers and force us to come up with a third kit (possibly last year’s yellow strip)?!

  862. Martyn Ping Says:

    I did wonder about the shorts – I had a feeling they were unveiled with black. Against Hungary’s white it did seem a bit odd. The numbers are weirdly big too!

  863. Davidr1986 Says:

    I do like the pale blue shorts with the Belgian away kit, purely because it irks me that they have two pairs of black shorts, common sense would be just to have plain black shorts to pair with home and away kit. The oversized short numbers are a major annoyance, if UEFA are being strict wit regs such as France away kit being outlawed I don’t know how they are getting away with oversized numbers!

  864. Denis Hurley Says:

    The blue shorts are registered as their first choice away shorts for the finals

  865. Martyn Ping Says:

    I suppose that makes sense. Something occurred to me re Germany – this will likely be another tournament (after 1996, 2002, 2004, 2006, and 2008) where the away strip isn’t worn once. The only team still left in who wear white shirts is England, and something tells me that if the two sides were to meet England would have to wear red no matter what – the Germany away shorts are white. The only twist on this would be if Germany wore the home shorts with the away shirt (which wouldn’t work) or if England wore their away shorts with the home shirt (which would arguably work better than the first choice). But we will see. At least Italy v Spain tonight should be clear cut (unless UEFA play silly again and make Spain wear their away strip because their shorts clash with Italy’s shirts).

    We have all criticised UEFA, but I don’t think this tournament has been quite as bad as one under FIFA’s auspices. I still think common sense has deserted. I think that ALL teams should nominate two pairs of shorts and socks per strip, that don’t double up, and could in some cases work with both strips. So Germany could have black and white for the home, with grey / green as a second choice for the away, with the alternative home shorts used as the first choice for the away. See? Makes sense?

  866. Martyn Ping Says:

    Oops! Sorry Poland fans! in that instance it WOULD work, because Poland’s home shorts are opposite to the home shirt. I will modify my original point and say that Poland are the only team against whom Germany will have to wear their away kit. Ahem.

  867. Denis Hurley Says:

    Italy v Spain tonight will sadly be all-blue v all-white, despite neither meeting at Euro 2012 requiring a change.

  868. Jon Says:

    More silliness from the UEFA kit police.

    I do remember Spain wore white unnecessarily against Italy in the 1994 World Cup, meaning both sides wore white shorts.

  869. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    I wanted to see Germany v Spain, both in home kits with the German’s reverting to white socks. Sadly it won’t happen.

  870. Martyn Ping Says:

    Aha! The whole Hertha BSC kit was unveiled today, and, its Nike but MAKES SENSE!!!
    The body of the shirt features two royal blue stripes against a white background; navy blue sleeves with a navy blue bar going down the side seams, continuing onto the royal blue shorts. The socks are navy. The carrying through of the navy blue colour from the sleeves, trimming the shorts, and forming the entirety of the socks makes much more sense than some of their Euro 2016 kits. If they had done a similar thing with the England home kit, with navy shorts and the lighter blue shade of the sleeves used as trim, finishing off with blue socks. Would’ve worked better than the mis-matched nonsense they ended up with.

  871. Denis Hurley Says:

    Thankfully, Italy get to wear their normal home kit against Germany, who will wear white socks.

  872. Martyn Ping Says:

    That will at least be a rare example of common sense prevailing, though I don’t see the clash between Azurri blue and black myself. The game last night was also sensible – Poland’s away shorts went perfectly with the home shirt so all clashes, potential or otherwise, were avoided.

  873. Jon Says:

    We’re through to the semi finals……. where Portugal await, now I hope we win the toss to wear red again.

  874. Martyn Ping Says:

    Having allowed some of Nike’s upcoming kits to sink in a bit, I now realise that I criticised them maybe a bit too early.
    The Inter home and away shirts are both stunning – not sure about the rumoured yellow socks with the home, but otherwise very nice.
    Hertha BSC home as mentioned – really nice (I can’t recall Nike ever doing a weak kit for them in fact).
    Man City home – having seen more up to date pics, not bad, though I would’ve still used white as the second colour on the shirt – it seems to go back to the darker look as sported for the first Le Coq Sportif kit.
    Werder Bremen home – very nice, though our favourite ‘certain site’ stating that its the first time Werder have sported hoops is kind of wide of the mark – although its theoretically true, some of the early 90’s Puma kits had stripes flying off at all kinds of odd angles, one almost resembling hoops. If sported with orange socks it’ll work, as the colour is synonymous with Werder anyway (witness the Kappa kits from the early / mid 00’s).
    Roma – very nice, again, and the 90th anniversary shirt sees them come over all Gladiator – it has ‘SPQR’ on the back of the collar! Also nice to see the return of the 70’s style wolf logo on the away shirt.
    So, not all bad then. The Euro kits (with the exception of the two England ones) look a lot better now I’ve got used to them. Still don’t agree with the sock experiment, but in the case of Portugal and France, who have worn green and red socks before, not really a problem. I think the non traditional ones such as England and Turkey just seem odd.

  875. Martyn Ping Says:

    One for Mr Devlin – now free of the claws of Nike, Umbro seem to be enjoying a real return to form – and apart from the collars, non templated too! It’s nice to see genuinely bespoke kits – the only other suppliers doing that are Lotto and Kappa.

  876. Denis Hurley Says:

    Haven’t Roma had the old crest on their away for the last couple of seasons?

  877. Martyn Ping Says:

    I have to admit I don’t know – I was trusting a ‘certain’ site who said it was a new thing, but they’re not always reliable so you’re probably right.

    I stand corrected on the Man City strip – having seen the whole thing it does work. Arguably though it’ll work better on the pitch than on the stands – on its own the shirt seems a bit lost.

    Interesting, given the match against Iceland, that Joe Harts new GK strip is the colour of butter. Mmmmmmm…..

  878. Jon Says:

    Bootfreaks reckon the new Eintracht Frankfurt kit, which isn’t very Eintracht Frankfurt-like, looks like the new Hertha kit – I think Bootfreaks need glasses. But it is very interesting that Eintracht, who have worn red and black for as long as I can remember, suddenly change to black and white stripes?!

    I do recall from old videos that they wore white and black in the 70’s, but it’s a radical change.

    Man City’s kit looks very odd with white socks in my opinion – should have had white shorts and sky blue socks. I still think Nike’s designer of this year’s kits still should get shot however!

  879. Martyn Ping Says:

    You’re right on both counts, Jon – the Hertha shirt has much broader stripes (only two, in fact) and is not teamwear. Eintracht have always had red as a main colour, its been down to designers interpretation whether the second is white or black. White and black has traditionally been their away kit. I’ll investigate further on the 1970’s thing.

    I like the City kit as it stands, but only if I put my traditionalist head to one side for a moment. They had white socks at the end of the first Umbro era in ’97, but that was with white shorts.

  880. Jon Says:

    I couldn’t be sure if the white and black kit was a home or away kit. Anyhow I read on Bootfreaks that apparently Eintracht fans are rather unhappy at the radical change.

    Seems like there’s a German equivalent of Vincent Tan out there.

  881. Nick Durham Says:

    As a City fan, this is my view of the new kit.

    It looks ok on the players, but generally it’s still a bit of a mess. Like most City supporters, the biggest issue I have with it is the sleeves. I’m not totally opposed to them being a slightly darker colour – subtly contrasting shades worked very well on England’s 2010 away shirt – but this is too far a stretch.

    I think some City fans, like me, feel that the final result isn’t quite as bad as expected, nor as terrible as the last kit to tamper with the sleeves, Reebok’s last contribution in 2006-7. But a lot of us are frustrated that our kit gets fiddled with so often, and we can’t have consistent colours or designs like, for instance, Arsenal, Liverpool or, dare I say it, our neighbours.

    I wish the shade of blue was as dark as it looks on the promos involving the players. Too light and washed out for mine.

  882. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, I think the sleeves are the main problem. Nikes problem seems to be that they are constantly fiddling. I think, and correct me if I am wrong, that sky blue shirts with a white collar, and just a tiny bit of navy trim, white shorts, and sky blue socks, would be welcomed. As for the new away kit…yeah, its red and black, but the red seems like an afterthought. If the template used was the same as the Hertha home, in red and black, with black shorts and red socks, I think City fans would love it. Again, correct me if I am wrong.

  883. Tony Spike Says:

    so (and i haven’t watched ANY of the euros AT ALL i haven’t been interested ……all foot-balled out after last seasons playoff excitement) but i just saw that france had to change their away kit at the last minute

    Due to an obscure UEFA rule, (8.05) “both sleeves must be identical in terms of colour and appearance…except for hooped, banded, striped and checkered shirts”

    someone at nike wasn’t paying attention LMAO

  884. Jon Says:

    I’ve just seen Espanyol’s new Joma kits for 2016/17 (on Boot Loving Freakshow dot come – sorry!!!), and the home and away kits have outlined two bugbears of mine…

    1) The big white panel on the back of the home shirt where the stripes would/should be.
    2) The away kit has also got same big white panel on the back, and the front is practically white with a red offset cross on it. Therefore both the home and away shirts are predominantly white.

    Whilst they may get away with wearing the away shirt at Deportivo (unless their new kit has more white than blue), the black third kit may get a lot of outings. Again, it goes to show how impractical some choices of away kits are.

  885. Denis Hurley Says:

    Not a fan of new Southampton kits

  886. Denis Hurley Says:

    Wales and Portugal to both wear away kits tomorrow night

  887. Jon Says:

    Interesting that Portugal are wearing their away kit as well – sounds like UEFA have fallen for FIFA’s bovine excrement about light/dark colour contrast in tournament football.

  888. Denis Hurley Says:

    I think they just consider the Wales away to clash with the Portugal home

  889. Martyn Ping Says:

    Jon (880), re Eintracht Frankfurt new kit. I’ve been checking back, and although red and black stripes is the most common strip, they’ve worn all red, and red with black shorts. They constantly changed their home kit in the 80s, as they were supplied by Puma, who radically experimented, mainly with their German club contracts. But their kit, despite occasionally featuring white as a second colour, never switched to black and white. The colour comes from one of the two clubs who merged to form Eintracht; one was red and white (from the city crest) the other was black and white (from the Prussian flag).The founders decided to combine the two. So while all red goes through periods of popularity, white and black is always the away, never the home. Their president has never previously expressed a desire to tamper with their colours before, so honestly, who knows where the idea has come from!

  890. Martyn Ping Says:

    Kinda like that new Southampton home kit – reminds me of the first Pony kit from 93-95 with the large white panel below the neck. Not so keen on the away kit – bit too similar to that Liverpool Warrior one from a few years ago. Why not go for yellow and blue? a cherished one for Saints fans, and a good start to a new contract.

    Generally some really nice kits coming out for 16/17.

    The total for the Bundesliga, while we’re on the subject :

    adidas – (4) Bayern, Schalke, Hamburg, Ingolstadt
    Puma – (1) Dortmund
    Nike – (6)Werder, Wolfsburg, E.Frankfurt, Augsburg, Leipzig, Hertha
    Lotto – (2)Hoffenheim, Mainz
    Kappa – (1)Monchengladbach
    Jako – (2)Leverkusen, Darmstadt
    Erima – (1)Koln
    Hummel – (1)Freiburg

  891. Denis Hurley Says:

    Nice Torino kits launched today; sadly, Roma have been Nike-ified.

  892. Jon Says:

    Adidas, please give us a new away kit – preferably in yellow. That charcoal grey kit needs to be put in the bin, we can’t win in it.

    Yours sincerely,
    Welsh football fans.

  893. Martyn Ping Says:

    Denis,
    Yeah – those Torino ones are nice, but then I’ve always rated Kappa.

    Just seen the new AFC Winbledon kits – really nice, but I must say I’m surprised to see Admiral supplying them…I thought they’d disappeared? What is the situation at Admiral these days? Because honestly, if they can do clean and classy designs like the Wimbledon ones they deserve to stay around and get some contracts at the top level again.

    Not a fan of Dryworld. They seem to be a bit pedestrian. Still, Macron weren’t great when they started out, and have improved, so who knows.

    New Aston Villa kits – nice, but have Under Armour been studying their Reebok kit history?

  894. Davidr1986 Says:

    I have to say I’m a big fan of the Dryworld kits, solid and classy

    The Torino ones are stunning, especially the white away one

    Two great kits on show tonight in the Euro’s, as much as I still mourn the Adidas FFF partnership, Nike have done a great job, just a shame the away had to be modified making it utterly ordinary

    My own club, Hibs unveiled our new kits last week, back to emerald green after a 2 year hiatus, a vote was taken last year and emerald won over bottle, however, much like Brexit most who voted emerald now regret it having seen us win the holy grail wearing bottle! As for the kits themselves, the home is well……meh. Nike have slightly modified a standard template for us to have white sleeves, but overall pretty disappointing. The away is fluorescent yellow and black, in the ‘Park’ template which translates to a plain t-Shirt which costs £8 having a Hibs badge and sponsor slapped on it and then sold for £45. Also rather than have the rather snazzy socks in use at the Euro’s we have the same socks that both home and away kits used last season but in fluo and black rather than white or purple as was used last year.

    What I can say is thank god this is the last year of the Just Sport contract, many Hibees will not be happy if it’s extended, after the initial excitement of Nike being announced in 2013 when they realised that everything we would get would be bog standard off the peg items cobbled together out a catalogue. I’d love Adidas (still templates but they at least give clubs SOME sort of choice and variants), Macron or Umbro, even Dryworld after seeing their efforts

  895. Jon Says:

    Roma’s kit is bad, but at least they’ve kept an element of their colours, but Inter Milan’s new kit has now been confirmed with totally out of place yellow socks.

    It looks awful if you ask me… I’m starting to wonder if Nike’s designer (who, by the way, still deserves to be shot!!!!) got his/her idea from Man City’s horrendous 2000/2001 away kit, with the jarring fluorescent yellow socks?!?!

    And not just that, but with the shirt being predominantly black, I can foresee the “away” team changing to white for the Milan derby for probably the first time in living memory.

    And as for Dryworld, well I’ve seen some of their efforts used in the Brazilian league, and whilst some designs are bordering on the pedestrian, at least they’ve retained a bit of a “traditional” look, rather than something completely garish.

  896. Martyn Ping Says:

    I only said that the Inter SHIRT was stunning – the socks are truly hideous! You’re right, owing to Milan going for a very dark strip again (silver grey trim – why?), its almost certain that they’ll wear white for the derby.

    Just seen the new Spurs kits – really, really nice. Strong, traditional home, solid away, classy third. Though its gold, it brings to mind some of the classic yellow away/third strips of times gone past. Like the pinstripes, too. And lastly, using gold on all three strips mean that (shock, horror) all elements can be mixed and matched depending on the circumstances without too many problems. Well done Under Armour!

    Dryworld – mmmm. I think that’s my main problem. For me, a bit TOO pedestrian. I’m not saying that every new supplier should go mad as a statement of intent, but it’d be nice if there was at least some wow factor. The QPR ones are OK, but the Watford ones are very dull, especially after some superb kits over the last decade or so from Diadora, Puma, and Le Coq Sportif. Why not go down the route of Puma at Dortmund and make the shirts more fluorescent?

    Most alarming rumour of the day – Amazon set to become Barcelona’s new shirt sponsor. Now, the Amazon logo is recognisable and strong, and would work on any number of big team contracts in England, Germany and Italy. But being as Barca resisted shirt sponsorship on the grounds of a company logo upsetting the famous stripes, this is just another step down the road to becoming, not ‘More than a Club’ but ‘Just another Club’. OK, Unicef, fine. Its a charity close to the hearts of so many players, coaches and supporters. Qatar Airlines? Not good. Amazon? Sad, very sad.

  897. Martyn Ping Says:

    Nice Wigan home kit. Just one thing is confusing me – the away kit is turquoise. Massively different from royal blue, and should cover all clashes. Obviously.

  898. Martyn Ping Says:

    Interesting that the Eintracht Frankfurt away strip will be red and black. As the SGE fans are annoyed about the switch to a white and black home, what price the strips being switched before the big kickoff?

  899. Martyn Ping Says:

    I like that new La Liga sleeve logo. Not radically different from the old one, but nice nonetheless. Memo to the PL – thats how you do a logo. I’ve seen some ridiculous number designs doing the rounds online for the PL, and they’re hideous – if the PL are banning striped backs for the objective of number visibility, then doing a number where you have to really concentrate to even make out what it is is both stupid and hypocritical. Lets hope they see sense. Personally, as stated before, I had no problem with both the mid 90’s Umbro and adidas fonts – big, chunky, easy to read, and classy too.

    Re new Valencia kits – Hurrah! the home shorts can be worn with the away kit, and vice versa! And given that the third kit is apparently going to be orange, those shorts will presumably be white, so they can be worn with both of the others. After all the insanity of the Euro 2016 kits its good to see some stunning club strips with some new ideas coming out. Its a good time to be a kit follower!

  900. Jon Says:

    I’m sort of surprised Valencia aren’t keeping last season’s Senyera away kit, given the colour scheme’s popularity. The last few Senyera kits have often been retained the following season for use as an alternative change strip.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Wigan bring out a third kit, or retain one of last season’s change kits (away or 3rd). It does seem daft to bring out an away kit which is not far off the same colour as the home.

  901. Jon Says:

    And as for the rumoured Premier League numbers, I saw some on the “Multi-coloured studded football garment infatuation society” website and they looked terrible, and I agree with regards to the silly rule on striped shirt backs, but having a not-so-legible (certain the digit “6” anyway) font.

  902. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just saw a retro PL highlights show from 07/08. I’d forgotten that Man Utd wore a special kit to play City on the 50th anniversary of the Munich air crash. No sponsor, kit logo, with a white V neck and 1-11 number fonts in a 1950’s style, with no player names. A fitting tribute. I said at the time of Johan Cruyff’s death that Barcelona should have done similar, rather than a token gesture of a bit of text on the chest. Just goes to show the difference – even in the days of megabucks player wages and fees, multi million pound sponsorship logos etc, that important things like that run through Utd’s DNA, same as Hilsborough, Paisley, and Shankly at Liverpool. I can’t help but thinking that the modern Barcelona have forgotten WHO they are, and what the club stands for. Even at my club, Bayern, tradition and history is important – the fans did a tribute to Kurt Landauer (the president in the 30’s persecuted by the Nazi’s) a while ago. The club still regularly refer both to him and the 1932 Deutscher Meister side that he oversaw.

  903. HArry Says:

    Barca are a disgrace. Qatar Airways and now, potentially, Amazon. More than a club, my ar$e

  904. HArry Says:

    The PL won’t change number font until 17/18. Which is daft, I think.

  905. scott grimwood Says:

    Martyn, by the looks of things the bundesliga is the last big league not to have sold its soul to the tv deal devil. Still seems a fans league compared to most of the rest of Europe.

  906. Martyn Ping Says:

    I would agree, even if I wasn’t biased! Packed stadiums, well organised fan culture, low prices, cracking atmosphere. The rule preventing an individual owning more than 10% of a club helps, because it keeps the clubs from becoming rich mens playthings. So in the case of Bayern, they have posted a profit 25 years or more consecutively, they don’t owe a Euro to anyone, and despite adidas, Audi, and Allianz owning a whisker under 10% each, the board is still made up of people who value the FOOTBALL club above everything else. Even Leverkusen (owned by Bayer Pharmaceuticals) and Wolfsburg (Volkswagen) are still treasured by their fans because in the former case the club was set up as part of the TSV Leverkusen to give its workers sporting pursuits (the club nickname is ‘Werkself’ – ‘Factory Team’), and in the latter case the two sprang up more or less at the same time (in 1945). This is the reason that RB Leipzig are so despised in Germany – they are seen as a wholly artificial creation with no history to speak of, whose sole aim is to sell energy drink. Harsh, but possibly true.

  907. Jon Says:

    So, a few nights ago Celtic decided to wear their new black away kit at Lincoln Red Imps, who wear red and black stripes. All because they had white shorts.

    Surely the shirt takes preference over shorts (or socks) in any colour clashing matters.

  908. Tony Spike Says:

    Wednesdays kits get launched today with the away and third getting launched on sunday

    Now we wore a bog standard training kit at alfreton but i have seen pics of players wearing a tasty all blue kit with white pinstripes and a white kit with blue shorts

    I think our first kit was hoops though so im expecting those two to be the latter not the former

    Sondico do some nice designs

  909. Tony Spike Says:

    Retract my previous statement ….all 3 have been released

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DWHRFe4smvs/V4kFpXX9v_I/AAAAAAAA800/Ijt665lXA2sJzxxZeL_HTz–Ga_tIvY2wCLcB/s550/sheffield-wednesday-16-17-kits-2.jpg

    Blue and white pinstripes is the home black is the away and white the third

    I like all three but i would have preferred pure stripes on the home ….i was hoping that was a third kit or something

  910. Jon Says:

    Blue with white pinstripes – just doesn’t look like Wednesday though.

  911. Jon Says:

    Also, Wigan Athletic have just unveiled their new third kit, which is white with a red and blue horizontal band. A bit odd considering their home kit is blue and white stripes and the away kit is teal (but is a bit too similar to blue in certain light).

    However what I don’t get is why that boot infatuated Arminia Bielefeld supporter has called the kit “controversial”.

  912. Martyn Ping Says:

    Because the colours and design have been picked in deference to Intersport. I dont think its a problem, lots of strips down the years have used sponsors colour schemes as a basis for kits, but you know what the ‘certain sites’ are like; the controversy exists because they thought of it!

    By the way, the new Norwich away is a stunner – one of the best Ive seen this week.

    And Tony, I just dont think Wednesday look right in pinstripes – the early 90s Umbro kit with proper stripes and black shorts was the best for me. Pumas new Huddersfield home is a good example of how to do something a bit different with stripes and still be traditional.

  913. Tony Spike Says:

    Well if your only complaint is that WEDNESDAY look odd in pinstripes i will take that as a compliment lol

    I mean i personally preferr the traditional stripes with BLUE shorts myself (just as traditional as the black and worn for at least half of the 90s) but i know we have not just worn stripes over our history and as long as history is being respected i have no problem …..so i stand by what i said …its not traditional but the kit itself looks nice …..nice button up collar …side panels …quite smart

    I too like the umbro kits we had in the 90s …but i wont look back on bygone glories just to judge a kit ….i live on the now

    I mean we last wore pinstripes in the 60s but our third ever kit was white with blue pinstripes

    and we have even had blue shirts with white sleeves in the 50s

    our first kit was hoops though…..cant imagine how you would react to a bunch of qpr wannabes running around so thank heaven for small favours lol

    I mean one would think on our 150th anniversary we would be allowwd to dip into our back catalogue without attracting too much criticism ….their better than adidas efforts last year for united lol

  914. Martyn Ping Says:

    I dunno, I guess if you like it as an Owls fan that’s fine, but I just look back on the Umbro and Puma years and the kits, to me at least, look pedestrian. I’m not afraid to say when there’s a Bayern kit I don’t like, for example I was never too keen on the gold trimmed one of 11-13, or it’s successor in red and white. Nothing terribly wrong with either, they just didn’t have the wow factor. And sorry to say it, but United’s kit this year is a stunner – love the black shoulder panels.

    What does everyone think about the ‘Roseberry’ Hearts away kit? Personally I love it – I think Puma, after a couple of off years, have really found their mojo again for 16-17.

  915. Tony Spike Says:

    Sorry martyn but i beg to differ ….. it is a standard adidas template ….nothing remotly special .

    it is being worn by sunderland this season (only with red shoulders and gold trim) i concede its a more effective colour combo but when you consider its probably going to be worn by brenford (unless they have changed suppliers) i dont think its anything to shout about

    Besides …i was talking about the anniversary kit they wore LAST year …..far less traditional or appealing

    Anyways my point is …..i think you guys sometimes have a habit of concentrating too much on the the fact that a kit isnt a “wigan” kit …or isnt a “watford” or “qpr” kit

    I dont think i have seen any of you actually look at a kit from a design perspective in quite some time

    For example …i have moaned about nikes team wear recently but i like its simplicity …and i certainly think inters yellow socks (whilst odd) are striking

    That france kit was nice ..and portugals was too

  916. Martyn Ping Says:

    Interesting. I always notice the little details – for example, the adidas ‘side stripes’, the first time they have changed the positioning for about twenty years, and interesting little collar details and trim that you get – in Germany, even teamwear kits often have club initials on the collars or watermarks (Nike did this for Freiburg and Augsburg).

    I did think that France and Portugals home kits were the most successful interpretation of their new direction. Even the Portugal away was nice. The problem I think is that the contrasting sock thing is more common for international teams than club sides. You do get it, but it tends to be white or black. The Inter socks jar a bit, but I may get used to them! I’m one of the few on here who like Man City’s new combination – I was watching a PL highlights show from 11/12 where the (Umbro) City kit had sky shorts and white and sky hooped socks. Not that different, really. I’d be interested to see how City fans really take to it.

    But to one of your points – I like fluorescence in kits, asymmetric trim, reversed seams, and grandad collars. I liked the baseball style collar that adidas did in 2010 (Spain away), and I like good chunky v neck collars, as well as hooped socks (broad hoops mind). How about you, Tony?

  917. Martyn Ping Says:

    Now THIS is how you do teamwear kits :

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/05/ingolstadt-16-17-kit.html

    The away chevron is taken from the Germany home kit of ’14, and the third kit is the same as HSV’s from a few years ago, but all updated to the latest trim styles. Stunning!

  918. Jon Says:

    Hertha BSC have pitched in their own candidate for pointless away kit of the season. If your home kit is over 50% white, then why have a white away shirt?

  919. Martyn Ping Says:

    Bonkers, isn’t it? Especially when Nike have given them classy kits in red and black or amber and blue down the years.

  920. Tony Spike Says:

    i do like fluro kits martyn sheff utd had a nice le coq sportif number back in 98

  921. Tony Spike Says:

    im also probably one of the few that liked coventry citys “in house” designs from the early 2000s

    dont really have preferences as long as the design looks smart

  922. Martyn Ping Says:

    Me neither, if I’m honest – I do like adidas, but even I have to admit they’ve had some sticky spells – 04-06 and 00-02 produced less classic kits. Nike were untouchable from 98-06 but only sporadically since, Puma are a bit up and down, but Kappa have probably been the most consistent. Jako do some really nice kits in Germany, and even Ulhsport have had their moments with 1860 and Kaiserslautern. 1860 are now Macron, who curiously have no contracts in the top flight.

    Bit of a mixed bag for Liverpool – pedestrian home (again), classy away, ‘interesting’ third. I wish our friends on the ‘other site’ would stop saying the third is influenced by 90s kits – they were dark green in deference to Carlsberg, this one is lime! OK, same spectrum, but totally different tone! Kinda like it though.

  923. Martyn Ping Says:

    Really smart Nurnberg home and away kits unveiled today. Home is traditional, being maroon with black shorts and socks, but Umbro have done a nice job with half white / half black collars that works well. Away is a simple and classy all white number too. All that remains is a third kit for the situations where Der Club play teams in red and white stripes – all black is the most common in recent history. But I must say that Umbro look to be well back to their best, and apart from collar and cuff detailing are actually tailoring each strip to that particular club – the co-ordinates of the home grounds on the inside of the collar is an unusual and nice touch.

  924. Martyn Ping Says:

    And just when I was starting to warm to Nike again, they’ve persisted with this ‘universal third kit’ rubbish. So the thirds of Man City, Galatasaray, Inter, and Barcelona are identical in all but colour. Might as well be teamwear, which of course they will be when the new catalogue comes out for next season. Now, I realise that templates get repeated – as a Bayern fan I’m aware that our white away strip last season was very similar to Milan’s – but these things are not similar. They’re identical. Even Nike’s ‘can’t be arsed to do any trim so you can all have completely plain strips’ approach was not this bad – at least they had watermarks and things like that. Take the sponsors and badges off and these could be any team whatsoever. And THAT is the problem.

  925. Denis Hurley Says:

    Thoughts on the new Bayern third, Martyn?

  926. Martyn Ping Says:

    I like it – the design and colours are clearly going for the retro feel, resembling Bayern’s home strip just before they switched to all red. The diamond shadow pattern on the shoulders isn’t immediately obvious, but the 12-13 orange and white away was the same – that one had a pinstripe that wasn’t obvious in pictures but was clear in the flesh.

    The only problem will be one of your pet hates Denis : the alternative home shorts (likely to be red) and the third strip alternative (probably white) will mean two colourways being repeated, twice. They won’t mix and match because the colour (red/maroon) and trim (red/silver) won’t work with the other strip. Unless the idea is to use the grey away kit whenever a shorts clash occurs in Europe. We will see.

    Speaking of retro, check out fcbayernshirts.com – loads of rarities, one offs, and alternatives on there. Very interesting.

  927. Denis Hurley Says:

    That’s exactly my beef Martyn, lovely kit otherwise!

    Interesting site, must check it

  928. Martyn Ping Says:

    And Juventus win the award for most pointless third kit of the year. Mmmmm, lets see – black and white home, blue away, and…black and white third. Exactly which team would this be a preferable choice than either of the other two kits against?Possibly Inter, at a push, but really, the home kit with white shorts would be more than adequate.

  929. Tony Spike Says:

    Well if i had to pick a brand that i have consistently liked for the past few seasons Martyn

    and bear in mind im talking strictly from a design perspective (because even though i think templates are as generic as hell i can still appreciate one as as stand alone) i think anything from the JD Sports family from between 2009 to present has been smart

    so we are talking FILA, Carbrini, & of course JD themselves (since they have started branding their most important contract …AFC Bournemouth …as their own)

    their kits for Luton last year were nice, as have been Bournemouth’s the last few seasons, and their kits for Blackpool between 2008-2011 were not bad either

    and i don’t find the shoulder branding too intrusive (but i do think they would be nicer without them)

    overall they have been pretty consistant

  930. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, I have liked some of their kits – solid, functional, and traditional. Never disliked Carbrini – they did some nice kits for Exeter before they switched to Joma. The only problem I have with some of the smaller companies is that they sometimes borrow design cues from bigger ones, for example trim and collar details used by adidas and Nike can find their way into these suppliers kits. There is a similar situation in Germany with Saller – good supplier, but they’re always borrowing other companies ideas. Uhlsport have been known, too. That’s why I like Jako. They plough their own path, don’t always get it right, but when they do, it’s stunning.

  931. Martyn Ping Says:

    Sure to divide opinion :

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/07/norwich-city-16-17-third-kit.html

    What does everyone think? as a Bayern fan I know why ‘that’ kit is so well remembered around Carrow road way…But I like it. Norwich have three really nice kits this season, helped by the fact that the new Aviva logo is relatively small and non intrusive (compared to last seasons, that overpowered the whole strip). Good work, Errea.

  932. Denis Hurley Says:

    Adidas quite lazy with Birmingham and Cardiff, both all-blue home and all-red away, except Birmingham have ‘new’ stripes on home and Cardiff do on the away

  933. HArry Says:

    That Norwich third is magnificent.

  934. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think some of the adidas teamwear contracts are a bit lazy, but then you get Forest, Wets Brom and Sheffield United’s which are great. Don’t know if adidas have an ‘Ajax style’ teamwear design, because it would’ve been nice to see the return of the ‘penguin’ design for Birmingham. I was watching an old ‘Match of The Day Classics’ program the other day and it was Liverpool v Birmingham from 1972/73. I thought then that the penguin design, coupled with the ‘BCFC’ interlinked lettering is one of the best designs of all time. As far as Cardiff, a yellow and white tramline going through the badge would be nice to see again. I love tramlines – the Bayern Euro kits that have used them have been stunning – and the Norwich away is beautiful. Love the fact that it continues on the shorts on the same side. The third, too, is magnificent. I can see that being a huge seller, even if theoretically Norwich never need a third kit (even the away is pretty tenuous with only Wolves being a direct clash). I guess it’ll be worn for friendlies and things like that. But it doesn’t take away that Norwich are definitely the best dressed championship team this coming season.

  935. Martyn Ping Says:

    And onto Celtic…the home is serviceable enough, away pedestrian, but whoever designed the third did so in a darkened room with a blindfold on. The problem is not the colour – pink is fine as far as I’m concerned – it’s the design, and the inconsistency of the elements. The Magners logo on the reverse is black trimmed with white, but the Dafabet logo on the front is plain black – why not trim it with white too? The badge is black when arguably white would work better; same goes for the New Balance logo. The collar, too, could do with a white trim to lift it a lot more. Ugh. Horrible.

  936. Jon Says:

    Absolute shocker from Mexico in the last week (surprise surprise)…

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/hiram-mier-of-monterrey-defends-the-ball-during-the-1st-round-match-picture-id576678494

    Think the referee needs to be brought to the book for that, awful awful clash.

  937. Alexander Perkin Says:

    We talk about sponsorships getting higher up the shirt in the modern era, hope this isn’t a sign of things to come…

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/adam-bogdan-of-wigan-athletic-in-action-during-the-preseason-friendly-picture-id579170352

  938. Martyn Ping Says:

    Kappa did put the sponsor logo very high when they supplied Fulham and Derby – the whole practice seems a bit pointless to me, unless second shirt sponsors or even chest numbers are coming in. Otherwise what are you going to do with all that space?

  939. Davidr1986 Says:

    As much as that sponsor is too high, their outfield kits are stunning! I have to admit that Kappa are a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine

    LOVE the new Norwich one too

  940. Denis Hurley Says:

    Martyn, I’d imagine the point is to give the sponsor the best chance of appearing in more photos.

  941. Martyn Ping Says:

    Aha! Cunning. Actually I’ve always liked Kappa. Curiously, the ‘high sponsor’ thing has never been used in Germany, despite some high profile contracts there. But they have done some stunning kits, particularly for Bremen in the 00’s. It was Kappa who introduced orange as a second colour to green, producing some of the most divisive kits of all time. Some hated them, I loved them. But back to my last point : I know chest numbers will never take off in England (despite being usedelsewhere, most famously I believe in Japan), but what about second shirt sponsors? The FL has broken the mould as regards to secondary sponsors on the rear of shirts; could it happen in England? Terrifying thought, I know. I hate the Scandinavian and French league shirts with logos everywhere, lets hope it doesn’t happen in England.

  942. Martyn Ping Says:

    As if the Celtic third strip wasn’t bad enough, the inspiration comes from…?
    …A famous match?
    …An early strip?
    No…
    …Its
    The colour of the 1967 European Cup Final ticket!!!

    (I despair)

  943. Martyn Ping Says:

    Moving on, saw with interest the official unveiling of the Man City away strip – and while the colour scheme is not striped as in the past, I think it’s quite a bold re-imagining of a well loved colour scheme…except the socks. Bright yellow? really? Yes, it ties in with the logos on the shirt, but really overpowers the rest of the strip. The Inter one will have a similar problem as well. If they wanted to do the ‘contrasting sock’ thing then Inter’s should have been white (memories of the ’10 ECF – I’m sure Inter fans would approve), and City…maybe silver grey? I think that would work quite well without screaming YELLOW SOCKS!!! every time you look at it. Nike have ruined what could’ve been a really nice strip with one mistake.

  944. Martyn Ping Says:

    Actually, a further thought : When kits are unveiled at the moment, its not uncommon to have a close up shot of the shirt in question draped artfully over something in a studio. Now, as a Bayern fan with a longstanding interest in shirt design and aesthetics, the only thing I miss is the pre-’13 adidas hologram, on the opposite side to the Climacool logo. adidas shirts are well made, with a stitched badge and adidas logo. Sometimes, the ‘Mia San Mia’ text is stitched too, depending on the makeup of the shirt. For example, this seasons home has it stitched on the back of the collar; the away is on a two tone tape stitched into the collar. Studying the shirts, the hems, collars, buttons (on the home) and stitching are well done, with the sash on the away shirt sitting where it should with no shade overlap.
    One thing I hate to see is stripes that don’t line up over the shoulders (Nike being particular culprits at this) and similarly, don’t ‘flow’ into the sleeves. For example, if a shirt is presented with arms down, the stripes should reach vertically to the shoulder seam, then at an angle running down the sleeves.
    Another thing I noticed today is the new Macron Cagliari home shirt. The brand holes on the shoulders are badly cut, the collar doesn’t sit right over the supporting tape beneath it, and the stitching is poor in this area. Added to that one of my real hates – printed badges. In an era where shirts are between £50 – 60, shouldn’t we expect stitched badges? I remember an era in the 90’s where even sponsor logos were embossed, but I assume this ended because the letters / numbers would very often peel off after several washes. I know sometimes a different approach to badges can work (I remember the WC ’12 Germany kits had badges that felt metallic, and I seem to remember Umbro or Nike using hologram prints a few years ago), but to me, I’ll always prefer stitching. I have quite a few retro shirts and there’s nothing quite like FEELING the badge, not just seeing it. Makes your club, your support, more tangible somehow. Suppliers that resort to printed badges…might as well be market stall knock-offs. Happily, adidas, at least with Bayern, seem happy to continue with stitched badges.

  945. Jon Says:

    Hull City launched their new shirt today, with bold amber (NOT ORANGE……. AMBER!!!!) and black stripes, and white trim. Nothing wrong with the kit, and looking through their kit history appears to have looked to the late 70’s for inspiration.

    The problem is that, just as was the case in 2014, the away kit clashes with the home – plain black. It might get an outing at Watford (with alternative shorts/socks), but surely there’s a third kit on the way for the fixture at Bournemouth.

  946. Martyn Ping Says:

    It’ll be all white, won’t it? Nice home though. Big thumbs up for the reborn Umbro, haven’t seen a bad kit yet.

  947. Jon Says:

    Possibly, or also sky blue which Hull have worn as an away colour on a few occasions. Last season they did launch a navy third kit, which was kinda pointless given the home kit was amber and the away was white, so I wouldn’t be surprised if a third kit would be launched a few months into the season, or the Premier League handbook for 2016/17 gives it away.

    In the 14/15 season, Hull did have a white third kit with sky blue trim and shorts. They even wore that kit at Newcastle, rather oddly…

  948. Martyn Ping Says:

    Interesting unveiling today :

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/07/39084-m-above-sea-level-reading-16-17-kits.html

    The home shirt is quite clever, in that it circumvents any possible solid back regulations by having hoops on the back that are neither solid OR invisible. When the name and number (most likely red) is laid on top I think it’ll look quite effective. Classy away, too. I think Reading are one of the clubs that have had consistently strong strips, certainly under Puma and Kit@ before then (which I understand were connected with Puma anyway).

  949. Martyn Ping Says:

    One for the auction websites in the future: Bayern played Milan last night in Chicago; because T-Mobile are known only by their full name in the states, the Bayern shirts carried the whole thing, rather than the single ‘.T…’ as in Europe. It was like 2005 all over again!

  950. Martyn Ping Says:

    It’s a shame, but VfB Stuttgart’s nice new metallic silver third kit won’t be sold as intended; apparently ‘production problems’ have led Puma to abandon the shirt as originally shown, changing it to a matt silver grey instead. It’s a shame – It would have been nice. I’m staggered that with 2016 printing techniques a metallic silver causes problems. Metallic gold kits were everywhere in the 00’s.

  951. Jon Says:

    More than likely Puma felt such a unique shirt would be wasted in use by a second division team.

    Indeed metallic effect shirts were popular in the 2000’s as you said, Arsenal’s away shirt in 2001 being a prime example.

  952. Denis Hurley Says:

    Jon, I don’t suppose you could drop me a line at denisghurley@gmail.com? Want to pick your brains on something.

  953. Martyn Ping Says:

    Saw a Champions League highlights show this morning from 94/95 – Barcelona vs Man Utd (4-0). What interested me was the fact that squad numbers weren’t yet in use (both teams 1-11), and also that the Kappa trim from Barca’s shirt sleeves and shorts, and the Umbro trim from Utd’s shirt and short hems (it was the black strip with yellow and blue trim) was omitted. The irony of UEFA being sensitive to anything to do with the commercial side of football struck me as odd, when seen through 2016 eyes. It also occurred to me that as a 16 year old that was one of the first CL games I remember watching, and here we are 22 years later.

    And here’s one to make me feel even older – on the pitch were the future coaches – Pep Guardiola (Man City);Ronald Koeman (Everton);Roy Keane (Rep of Ireland assistant); Steve Bruce (currently unemployed, but having managed at least half a dozen clubs); Paul Ince (unemployed?); Mark Hughes (Stoke)…plus I think that Gheorghe Popescu and Hristo Stoitchkov have / are coached / ing.

  954. Martyn Ping Says:

    Like that ‘Thames Ironworks’ West Ham third unveiled today. OK, the naysayers are likely to say it’s a polo shirt with blacked out logos, but being that the origin of football shirts as we know it came from collared work shirts then it does have historical integrity. Good work (again!) Umbro.

  955. Martyn Ping Says:

    And lastly, I saw that Inter home against Bayern, in our stunning new third shirt. The third inspiration comes from the fact that it’s 50 years since our first European trophy this season (the 1967 Cup Winners Cup), and the strip, apart from a few modern trappings, is designed to resemble that one.

    The significance of this comment comes from the Inter home with ‘THOSE’ socks. And, in my opinion, they are effing horrendous. Ok, they looked alright in studio shots, but in the flesh…horrible. As I’ve said before, why not white, if Nike really did have to mess with tradition? Dayglo yellow with such a dark strip? Yeah, use it as trim, but not the socks. It’s disgusting. Reminds me of that silver and navy Man City away from a few years back with the lime green socks.

  956. Denis Hurley Says:

    Agreed Martyn, it’s terrible.

    Re the MUFC kit worn in the Nou Camp in 94 – they had the home socks too, and the ‘Viewcam’ was missing from the sponsor IIRC

  957. Martyn Ping Says:

    That’s correct. The usual socks had the same yellow and blue trim as the rest of the strip, though the Umbro logos were much more abstract than the Kappa ones on the Barca strip; why UEFA considered it to be too much of an identifying mark I don’t know. I guess the Viewcam logo was taken off because that product hadn’t been launched in Europe OR had a different name? Kind of (in F1) why the Williams cars carry ‘Sure’ in some cases and ‘Rexona’ in others; same product, different market?

  958. Jon Says:

    Inter’s kit reminds me of when the kit manager forgets to pack the correct socks and has to go cap in hand to the home team for several pairs, only to be told there’s only yellow pairs available.

    Man City’s new away kit falls foul of this, and as mentioned above, brings back shades of that awful grey Le Coq Sportif away kit from a full 16 years ago.

    I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again, whichever designer at Nike came up with this silly concept if contrasting socks SHOULD BE SHOT!!!! It only ever works for Chelsea, get that straight….

  959. Martyn Ping Says:

    Agreed. Though when LCS did it for Birmingham it looked good. Bayern have on occasion (07/08 and 14/15) had white socks with mainly red shirt and shorts and it looked fine. I think the problem is when it comes from a completely different spectrum. France to me only look right with red socks, Portugal with green. But Inter should really only be wearing blue or black (or at a push white) socks. Man City away is smart, but needs red or black socks. You are right, Jon, this ‘innovation’ needs to stop.

  960. scott grimwood Says:

    Martyn Celtic’s 1997/99 umbro sponsored home shirt also went without the umbro diamond trim on the sleeves in euro matches when worn.

  961. Martyn Ping Says:

    Weird wasn’t it? Didn’t Leeds’ Puma kit of the same time also have to omit the trim from the sleeves and shorts? That must have been UEFA’s most pointless reg of the 90’s…that, and banning shirt sponsors in the Cup Winners Cup final.

  962. Jon Says:

    I recall Scotland’s tartan effect kit from 1994-96 had a purple stripe with navy Umbro logos, but this trim was missing when the kit was worn at Euro 96.

    Also, UEFA didn’t allow sponsor logos in the European Cup final either up until 1995. Curiously though, the UEFA Cup final, which was a two legged affair until 1998, did permit sponsored shirts.

    Another bizarre UEFA rule was from around 1980/81, where manufacturers’ logos were not permitted in the club competition finals nor Euro ’80. I remember looking at old videos of teams wearing sticky tape to cover the logos, and on one article Greece got fined after Euro 80 because the Asics Tiger logo on their kit wasn’t covered up.

  963. Jon Says:

    And yes Leeds’ kit was devoid of Puma logos on the trim. Many teams wearing Kappa (Barça, Porto, Juventus, Athletic Bilbao) also had to wear modified kits.

    If you go back further in time, Scotland’s Umbro kit in the 1978 World Cup had solid diamond trim on the shoulders and shorts, unlike other Umbro kits that had the double diamond logos, due to FIFA guidelines.

    Still, not as bad as the Olympics ruling, where adidas can’t have their three stripe trim, and Hummel had to make the Danish Olympic team a kit without the signature chevron trim.

  964. Martyn Ping Says:

    It’s been lost in the mists of time, but I’ve often wondered if Germany mysteriously switching to Erima between 78 and 82 had anything to do with those regulations. As a subsidary of adidas it would make sense – rather than losing the integrity of the three stripes marque, they chose to switch to Erima, which was basically unbranded. That’s my guess. Any ideas, anyone?9

  965. Martyn Ping Says:

    Best dressed Nike contract I reckon this year is Werder Bremen.

    Home – shirts – green with white hoops, orange and purple trim; shorts – green; socks – white

    Away – all purple shirt and shorts with orange trim; orange socks

    Third – all white shirt and shorts with green trim; green socks

    I would think that the third will only get occasional use, as the home and away should cover most clashes / eventualities. But good work Nike.

  966. Martyn Ping Says:

    So, the new HSV away kit is pink. It’s actually nice – I don’t object to pink kits, and they did use them in the late 70’s. My only objection is that with the navy sleeves it gives the overall impression of a training bib. That aside, it’ll be a bit different, and makes a change from HSV’s recent cycle of white home, red away, and black / navy / grey third.

  967. Tony Spike Says:

    jon? when you say that mexico match is a shocker (sorry i haven’t had the opportunity to get online in a while) is it really all that shocking?

    im so used to seeing these sorts of stupid clashes going on in the south and central american leagues these days that i have kind of grown immune to its lunacy lol

  968. Tony Spike Says:

    also … i am now finding it hilarious that both Sondico and Adidas have both somehow seperatly decided that black shirts and orange shorts/socks are suitible away colours for both sheffield clubs

    pure coincidence im sure but its still funny lol

  969. Martyn Ping Says:

    Interesting initiative just launched by adidas – they have invited fans to use the ‘mi adidas’ design software to design a new third kit for Bayern, Man Utd, Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid, and Flamengo. The base colours are set, so respectively they’ll be white, pale grey, black, dark green, turquoise and yellow, but you can add anything to the base. I won’t give away what I’ve done for Bayern, but check out the galeries on there – there are some wild designs!

  970. Denis Hurley Says:

    New series on my blog, charting the history of adidas GK shirt designs https://museumofjerseys.com/

  971. Tony Spike Says:

    united have already revealed their third though?

  972. Martyn Ping Says:

    Tony,
    Unbelievably, it’s for next season’s third!
    It’s also inadvertently given away the fact that Bayern’s away next year will be dark again.
    Congrats on the win today, too.

  973. Mattkitclashes Says:

    Just a minute, United in pale grey?!

  974. Jon Says:

    I have trouble with that Man United kit, I can’t see it because it’s invisible ;)

  975. Denis Hurley Says:

    I was recently reminded of the 1995-96 Charity Shield, when Everton beat Blackburn 1-0 while wearing their white, grey and black away kit.

    A clash, you’d think, but it was allowed at Ewood Park later that season too, far from ideal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCe7qxPeBdc

  976. Denis Hurley Says:

    Sadly, no more third kits being revealed in the PL handbook http://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/premierleague/document/2016/08/09/b81992f4-cf2a-4c5e-a9c1-155169074163/2016-17_Premier_League_Handbook.pdf

  977. Martyn Ping Says:

    I like the fact that Swansea’s ‘official’ third is just the home with black shorts! I would think that the majority of these will be white, though surely no clashes will occur involving Palace where a third kit is required? The Man City one we all know will be that eyeball scorching orange and purple thing. I remember when I first started watching football I didn’t even know what a third kit was, and back in 94/95 I think the only teams who used them were Man Utd and West Ham. (Sigh) Those were the days…

    Re Everton in white and grey v Blackburn – Being as (fellow Umbro contract) Spurs brought back their yellow kit (first worn in 92/93) in 94/95 as a third, perhaps a better option for Everton would’ve been another go in the salmon away kit?
    There are a lot of these retro highlights shows on TV at the moment that are chock full of ‘how was that allowed?’ moments.

    Re Man Utd third – 17/18. Yes, grey. Though it’ll be more similar to that Real Madrid one with the poorly matching shorts than ‘that’ Man Utd kit from 95/96. With the benefit of hindsight it wasn’t that bad, was it? I’ve seen worse. Grey can still work when done right, as on our away kit for this season. Anyway, as per the kit competition the Man Utd one won’t be plain grey, and will likely have another one or two colours on it, in some kind of jazzy graphic. Looking at the top 100 the other day the current favourite seems to be ‘Newton Heath’ yellow and green over the top. Not sure how the Glazers will feel about that…

  978. Martyn Ping Says:

    *Just realised I contradicted myself re Spurs third in 94/95. My defence is that I didn’t know they’d done it until I read TC volume 1…

    Back along, it was mentioned about unusual one off kits – I’ve recently seen a couple of Bayern ones :

    1990 – kit unveiled for the club’s 90th anniversary – red and blue striped shirt with no trim, other than a lace up collar.

    1991 – Kit unveiled for Opel’s (main sponsor at the time) 100th anniversary – identical to the above, just rendered in red and white stripes.

    Both kits had a few run-outs during their respective seasons, but no more than that.

    Also in the late 90’s, Bayern wore an all red kit (when the home was midnight blue) for the derby with 1860 – template was with side bars on the front with the three stripes sitting on them – similar to France home 96 and Rangers home 96. This came about because Bayern are red and 1860 are blue, traditionally. This kit was only worn twice for one season. A similar thing happened in 03/04 when the Bayern kit was VERY dark red with a lot of navy on it; that season they wore the red European shirts from 00/02 paired with the white 02/03 shorts and socks against 1860. Very odd.

  979. Denis Hurley Says:

    Martyn, was this shirt – http://file1.npage.de/010174/25/bilder/historische_fotos_1990_dm.jpg – only worn for the 1989-90 title presentation?

  980. Martyn Ping Says:

    I believe I’m right in saying it was used mainly as a European shirt – the same thing happened a few years previously when the title celebrations saw a red shirt with diagonal white and blue pinstripes unveiled – it, and it’s white equivalent – saw action in the following season but only in Europe. So again, those and the one you mentioned are amongst the rarest of FCB kits. Oh, and who can forget the ‘Kaiserslautern kit’ – when we dressed like Brazil just for that game for a couple of years?

  981. HArry Says:

    Martyn – that yellow Spurs kit was actually used from 91-92 to 94-95!

  982. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, realised my error – it had the old lower case Umbro logo on it, didn’t it? I remember that all new kits unveiled in 92/93 switched to caps.

  983. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just been thinking that Bayern’s white and orange away kit from 12/13 might be the most successful, ratio wise, possibly of all time. We only lost one game in the league that season, against Leverkusen, at home, and once in Europe, again at home. Unbeaten in the cup, that means that we never lost wearing that kit. It was carried over for the first few months of the following season before the white and green kit took over from September onwards, during which time the only game we lost was the German Supercup, again in the home kit. I think the only European away kits that get close to that are Arsenal’s yellow and navy ‘Anfield’ kit; the Gunners yellow and blue away/third from the ‘invincibles’ era, and possibly Man Utd’s white and black from the treble season. Am I right? Also, our dark petrol, orange and silver third from 12/13 was undefeated too, but that doesn’t count ‘cos it was only worn a few times.

  984. Denis Hurley Says:

    Arsenal lost 4-1 to Manchester United on opening day of 89-90 and I’d imagine there were other defeats in that kit that season and maybe in 88-89 too.

    They lost to Shakhtar in the yellow and blue kit in the Champions League in 03-04 and also away to Middlesbrough in the league cup semi-final second leg.

    However, the gold 01-02 away was undefeated, including in two games in 02-03, with O2 branding.

    Manchester United lost to Southampton in January 98 wearing their white away (not sure why the blue third wasn’t used) and also against Barnsley in their FA Cup exit that season.

  985. Martyn Ping Says:

    So apart from the gold Arsenal one the FCB record is unique? Wow.

    Saw a highlights show this morning from 06/07 – Sheffield United vs West Ham. It goes back to the original point of this article – what constitutes a clash? Utd had red and white shirts, black shorts and socks (Le Coq Sportif – nice kit, by the way), and the Hammers had the asymmetric Reebok one with white shorts and socks. I know down the years that there hasn’t always been consistency with red v claret, but in this instance West Ham were fine in their home kit – the shorts and socks were enough to distinguish the two, and the white on Utd’s shirts (though red was dominant) also helped. It was a bright, sunny day too, so even that didn’t confuse things (as it can do from time to time). I think in that instance the officials were spot on.

  986. Martyn Ping Says:

    Nice, isn’t it?

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/08/jako-bayer-leverkusen-16-17-third-kit.html

    Told you it’d be white!

    I still think Jako are THE most underrated kit supplier around. The above kit, along with the home and away Leverkusen, Darmstadt, Hannover (all three are stunning) – what I like about them is the fact that, like the Diadora ‘lozenge’ of a few years ago, Jako have their trademark (a line of spots running from the collar to above the league logo), but that each kit is thought out and made in line with the particular clubs’ history. OK, they do have mis-steps (last season they outfitted Hannover in a rather bland all red outfit, when 96’s traditional colours are red/black/white), but on the whole I look forward to seeing their new kits every year. Hannover’s away kit (all white with a black and green sash) is one of the most gorgeous kits I’ve ever seen.

    More news from the 2.Bundesliga – Fortuna Dusseldorf are back (after a few years in red) in an all white kit with red shoulder and short stripes (supplied by Puma). Why is this significant? Well, apart from the sponsor and the 2016 aesthetics, it is VERY similar to the late 70’s kit, even down to the trim. Back then it was Puma as well :

    https://www.kulttrikot.de/s/cc_images/cache_2456188600.JPG?t=1452803583

    And :

    http://www.uksoccershop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/dusseldorf-16-17-kit-front.jpg

    Back to the future, indeed.

  987. Martyn Ping Says:

    And these are the Hannover kits :

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UJm5F3po4IA/V0XItDDMykI/AAAAAAAA7DU/qcVk6zVmY2kM9xF2T3UQtnzNqJzaV4UmwCLcB/s1600/Hannover-16-17-kit%2B%25289%2529.jpg

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TUDKT2ZdYm4/V0XImp9qwBI/AAAAAAAA7DA/eGRkoMSewh8jl79MAha91TPMk0j8yZMNwCLcB/s1600/Hannover-16-17-kit%2B%25284%2529.jpg

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OqxUIqzFdiE/V0XIsb3PvlI/AAAAAAAA7DM/LjH5jGlsCBgNrzSkpcPTHDhw2ZjP3hdVACLcB/s1600/Hannover-16-17-kit%2B%25287%2529.JPG

  988. Tony Spike Says:

    Thanks martyn ….nice point against norwich this week as well despite Fernando Forestieri not wishing to even travel down their (he is being stupid before you ask …you dont pledge loyalty to a club then a month later ask to move simply because derby wants to pay you more …its bad form …proved we didnt need him ..but still …we would be stupid to sell him to a rival and im smelling his agents work behind this)

    Curiously though we wore our white third at carrow road, …i would have thought that white and blue vs yellow and green would have been a bit of a problem

  989. HArry Says:

    Denis – an idea for your blog. Weird prototypes. See the blue Liverpool kit from 89-91 on the front page here: http://www.historicalkits.co.uk

    They also had a prototype bruised banana kit in white, purple and black! Sold on eBay a while back.

  990. Martyn Ping Says:

    I smell a rat here – I suspect that it’s actually a shade of green, which owing to the trim makes it appear turquoise…bad light when the photo is taken and bingo! It’s blue. I can’t believe anyone at adidas would be daft enough to even think of a blue away kit (I think the nearest they got is that one from a few years ago with turquoise trim, and of course the regular appearance of navy in the Reebok years).

    It is an interesting point though. I have seen Bayern ones pop up on e-bay with weird variations in collar, sponsor, trim etc, and to muddy the waters further in the early 90’s the Regionalliga team (Bayern II as it’s known in Germany) used a Germany style kit rendered in red, black and white. That kit bizarrely popped up in the ’93 Supercup against Bremen. So sniffing out what is real and what is fake is quite difficult. Only the other day I saw a variant of the blue CL kit from 13/14 with the darker of the three shades of blue actually in a light, almost sky blue. Prototype? or fake? Similarly, I believe the white, navy and silver away kit of 10/12 may have been prototyped in sky blue instead of silver (so it would have looked like the Argentina RU shirt). The closeness to 1860’s colours presumably changed adidas’ mind.

  991. Denis Hurley Says:

    I think the truth on that Liverpool one is a lot more straightforward – it’s a fake. The inaccuracy of the adidas trefoil is a real giveaway

  992. Martyn Ping Says:

    A-ha! two ‘R’ marks on the logo! Good spot. I went on a holiday in Europe last year, where there were a lot of fakes around – the Bayern third (navy and salmon pink) hadn’t been unveiled yet, but there were versions of it in a lot of the shops – some spot on, some miles off. I even saw a version of the away shirt with five stars above the badge, not four! I think the problem is that up until 2012 adidas used to include a hologram on the opposite side to the Climacool logo – very difficult to fake and an effective deterrent. For whatever reason this is not included anymore.

  993. HArry Says:

    Erm, some kits did have two (r) marks on the trefoil back then. Germany 88-90 did.

  994. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yeah, but Liverpool kits didn’t, AFAIK.

    I

  995. Denis Hurley Says:

    In these situations, I prefer to go by Occam’s Razor, that is, that the most straightforward explanation is the right one.

    There has been no mention of this blue shirt for the past 27 years, but now a lot are showing up – with questionable details -in an age when reproductions are quite common.

  996. Jon Says:

    As a matter of fact, Liverpool shirts featuring the trefoil did have the double registered trademark logos (on both trefoil and logotype).

    For instance, this FA Cup final shirt from 1989…
    http://liverpool-shirt.narod.ru/1980-90/1988-89/home/leag/88-9-hss-facf-issue-f.jpg

    I’ve since debunked the blue Liverpool shirt on Twitter by the way. The strange looking trefoil logo and wrongly proportioned Liverpool badge (and font) are a real giveaway. Could argue the Candy logo looks strange too when put side by side with both a player issue shirt and a replica.

  997. Martyn Ping Says:

    The problem is that retro shirt companies have now moved into the polyester era; and if the legitimate companies can do it so the fake manufacturers can. Its a real cottage industry thats causing huge confusion online! The thing that irritates me is name and number typeface on Bayern kits – until 97 they used the 3D numbers; then a specific bespoke font came in; from then up to now the numbers have been similar, except A) the 10/11 season, when a more rounded, PL style font was used, and B) in Europe, up until 05/06, when the font matched the adidas international one of the time. The letter font has been the same since switching to capitals in 03/04. Yet despite this knowledge, I still see crude imitations online from all these eras! I also saw someone a couple of years back with a Barcelona shirt with the PL numbers and name font on it, rather than the bespoke lettering that Barca use. So even legitimate avenues can cause anomalies.

  998. Tony JB Says:

    Crawley Town have been causing kit clash chaos this week. Saturday played at Doncaster in their white and red away kit.. Doncaster wearing red/white hoops as normal.

    Then tonight show up at Exeter who wear red/white stripes as any football fan knows in the same white/red away kit thus causing Exeter to wear their yellow/black away kit !!

    Their Kitman needs to find last seasons black away kit pretty soon..

    http://www.crawleytownfc.com/cms_images/160813-tele-doncaster-crawley-020301-3245776_478x359.jpg

    http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/exeter-city-vs-crawley-town-pre-match-build-up-live/story-29625982-detail/story.html

  999. Martyn Ping Says:

    Now the first weekend of PL action is over, I thought I’d share my opinions on some of the strips, both those worn over the weekend and some recently unveiled :

    Everton home – Umbro seem to know what makes a good Toffee’s strip – is this their third or fourth spell now? I like the combination of white and yellow in the trim, paired with white shorts and socks, this is a really nice strip.

    Everton third – would be just about perfect except choosing to render the sponsor logo in white. Why? In certain light conditions it’ll be almost invisible.

    Spurs home – I like Under Armour – this is a solid, traditional strip – no ‘heritage sash’ or nonsense. I like the addition of gold trim – really lifts what could be a sombre kit.

    Man City home – juries still out. I think white sleeves would’ve worked better, the whole kit just looks a bit…dull.

    Sunderland home – don’t like the trim. Its supposed to be gold but just looks beige. Its OK, just a bit pedestrian.

    Bournemouth home – a bit over fussy. Plus, locating the JD logo on the sleeve, above the newly rounded PL logo, just looks weird.

    Man Utd third – really, really nice. Mainly just white and black, that honeycomb trim on the shoulders just adds some interest without being too in your face.

    Arsenal home – I like it generally, but I don’t get that dark stripe down the middle. What is it supposed to be?

    Liverpool away – my favourite of the Reds’ three kits this year – mean and moody, I like the fact that the red flashes on the side look like claw marks – as in, they may be wearing black, but cut them and they’re still red.

    Watford home – I was a bit harsh on Drifit, I like this now, mainly due to the inclusion of red on the shirt seams. Would’ve preferred it if it’d gone onto the shorts as well.

    Swansea home – good work by Joma, giving a monochromatic kit just enough interest to be nice and classy.

    Southampton home – I really, really like this – that yoke effect really brings back memories of the first Pony kit from 93/95.

    Middlesbrough home – don’t know what adidas were trying with the odd placement of the sash. Just strange.

    Stoke away – love this. Best Macron kit by far, so far.

    West Brom home – I love the sky blue trim – OK, its not traditional, but really works. Hate the solid white back though.

    Palace home – who knows? Too much blue for my liking, but what IS a traditional Eagles’ look? Red, or blue?

    More later.

  1000. Martyn Ping Says:

    …Continued

    Burnley home – its OK, just a bit pedestrian. I think Puma could’ve done better with this.

    Leicester home – the overall effect is of a completely blue kit, even though it has gold trim. Brings to mind their early 90’s kits. Another pedestrian Puma design.

    Hull home – I DO like this, but I have one minor quibble – the socks. I think they should’ve been black. Making them amber with that white section in the middle, actually creates the appearance of yellow when viewed from a distance, a la Nike. Leftover Nike designers at Umbro I wonder???

    Chelsea home – Its OK, but a bit of a low key end to the contract. I like to see a different colour used on the kits with white – yellow (as on that superb Umbro kit of 95/97) or red. The shadow pattern of the lion is just trying too hard I think.

    West Ham home – I can’t fault it. I love the trim hinting at the Union Jack in deference to the clubs’ new stadium; I love the traditional styling cues; I love the new badge (actually the old badge, as crossed Hammers I believe was the badge through the 60s and 70s). What can I say? Its great.

    So, in summary, a mixed bag (as ever). Top marks to Umbro – one or two styling mishaps, but on the whole, a decent set of kits across all their contracts. Macron are improving, Under Armour are great, too, but adidas have a real mixed bag. Generally, the teamwear contracts are where they fall down. Puma are just a bit bland (though in their homeland, the Bundesliga and 2.Bundesliga kits are really nice), Nike’s Man City kits are completely divisive (so-so home, nice away despite naff socks, totally DISGUSTING third), and New Balance and JD are a bit hit and miss. But as always, I welcome debate – we don’t always like the same things, which is what makes this wonderful world of kits so great.

  1001. Martyn Ping Says:

    Tony JB – What is Crawley’s away strip? Unless it’s red, why couldn’t it be worn against Donny or the Grecians? Even then, why not a third kit? Blue, perhaps?

  1002. tony Says:

    @ Martyn the white one with the red stripe down the sleeve is their away .. Home is red and black .. yes they need a dark 3rd kit

  1003. Martyn Ping Says:

    Whole thing seems a bit bonkers to me…red and black v red and white is not ideal but better than all white! a blue third kit would’ve avoided any clash though.

  1004. Jon Says:

    Poor show that from Crawley, who should have known the fixture with Doncaster in particular was going to be a problem.

    Not as if last season’s black kit was going to be an issue considering it is also made by Puma and also has the same shirt sponsor.

  1005. Tony JB Says:

    I still feel there should be rules in place that ban away kits having any colour that is in the home kit.

    Everton Navy Away Kit a prime example.

  1006. Martyn Ping Says:

    It’s always been an irritant of mine – of course, jaded cynic that I am, I’ve always suspected that the reason is to make a third kit inevitable, thereby creating more income for the club and supplier.

    I remember back in the 90’s Blackburn had a red and black away kit, only wearing a yellow and black third when they played – I think – at Palace. But since the turn of the millennium navy has been a regular away choice of theirs. Why?

    My club, Bayern, were guilty of falling into a ‘clash trap’ back in the early years of this century, when both the home and away kits had large amounts of red and blue on them, thereby creating more than one bizarre combination (including the ‘training bib’ incident – thanks Denis for drawing my attention to that one). The third kit at the time was…errrrrr…red. But starting in 02/03 we switched to a white away kit, and despite one last flirtation with a ‘same coloured’ third (the all maroon CL kit of 06/07), we have generally favoured the red/white/navy-grey-black configuration. Thankfully.

    I think the clubs have a responsibility to the fans, especially now most clubs change all three strips every year, to at least make a third that is worn so rarely as to be ignored. I have a feeling that despite switching the white to a CL kit (in deference to the ’67 CWC winning strip – 50th anniversary), that this will still be the strip that is worn more often than not when clashes occur, meaning that nice grey away kit will be the one that only appears a few times. Besides, Bayern have issued many, many strips down the years marketed as ‘International’ kits…in other words, only used as a domestic third when there is no way around it. Because of the anniversary I expect to see the white one used for the first few games of the CL season at the Allianz.

    My choice, as a Bayern and kit fan? a red, blue and white home patterned after the quite beautiful kit of 99/01; navy away (I adore the 08/10 one so a new interpretation of that); white third with red and blue tramline down the LH side (aping the ’69 and ’96). GK strips to be sky blue and black home; green away; black third.

  1007. Denis Hurley Says:

    I loved that home kit too, Martyn, the hooped socks worked perfectly.

    Is there history with green and black GK shirts?

  1008. Martyn Ping Says:

    Not particularly. Sky blue and black is the most traditional, being worn by Sepp Maier, Jean-Marie Pfaff, Oliver Kahn, and Manuel Neuer, but I was just being logical, really – if the away was dark, then a black GK shirt would clash. I remember Ollie Kahn wearing green a few times. Raymond Aumann wore black a lot before him.

    Those socks on the 99/01…If I had to give an award for the best example of socks ever, then that would be it. I just loved that whole strip – even allowing for the turn of the century baggier fit, it was dangerously close to being perfect. If updated to adidas’ current house style, with white stripes down the side over the blue, flowing onto the shorts, I would be one happy Bayern fan! I actually prefer our solid strips to the striped ones, though after the 99/01, the hooped one of 07/08 is probably my favourite.

  1009. Martyn Ping Says:

    Bayern played Carl-Zeiss Jena in the cup tonight, and unveiled the expected red home change shorts. I have to say that I probably prefer them to the white first choice. I’m being fussy, but I prefer the consistency of the side stripes continuing in the same colour on the shorts, not reversed out.

  1010. Denis Hurley Says:

    Not a fan of the reversal either, think my favourite way is Spain’s, where shirt and shorts are different colours and stripes are a third colour

  1011. Martyn Ping Says:

    …Which, if adidas continue with the ‘side stripes’ is effectively what I want to see next year – blue side panels and raglan sleeves, large blue panels on the short sides, with white stripes flowing between the two. A modern take on the classic 09/01 I mentioned above.

  1012. Martyn Ping Says:

    With blue and red hooped socks, trimmed with white, of course!

  1013. Martyn Ping Says:

    I have to say, if it wasn’t for the white sponsor ruining things, that Everton away would be a work of art.

    Southampton away lovely too – memories of the Reebok Liverpool away of years back (though not that awful Warrior attempt). If done right, black and grey can really work (especially trimmed with orange ha,ha!).

    Striped backs – have the Pl really bamned them? Or was that an internet prank? Because, although WBA have a plain back, Stoke do not – stripes are at the bottom surrounding the number. For my money, a much more sensible way to approach the legibility problems. I think, having seen Milan’s kit, its actually an adidas policy, to HELP referees.

    OK. The talking point of the last few months : Nike. I’ve decided that I do not like their main contract kits (with the exception of Hertha and Bremen) because the template is just repeated throughout the leagues. The two I’ve mentioned utilise striped and hooped designs, respectively, which is the only way they avoid raglan sleeve, side stripe, contrasting sock ubiquity. Similarly the Galatasaray home, though the tiny stripes making it up hurt my eyes. You could make a case for the 16/17 teamwear catalogue being better than the ‘A’ tier.

  1014. Nick Durham Says:

    Having seen the new Football League name and number sets in action over the past couple of weeks, it’s fair to say that they’re a significant improvement on those they replaced. They’re more legible. They’re cleaner. But more than anything they just look BETTER. As in something you’d actually want to have printed on the back of your shirt.

  1015. Denis Hurley Says:

    Martyn – I said that above, that there was no rule implemented re plain backs, but people were misunderstanding the changes.

  1016. Martyn Ping Says:

    A ‘certain site’ that may or may not be biased towards football boots…said that striped backs were banned. Recent games have proven that they are COMPLETELY wrong and are in fact talking out of their Mourinho’s.

  1017. Jon Says:

    That particular site is full of rubbish anyway, about as credible as a front page Daily Express weather headline.

  1018. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, the only thing they get right usually is new kit leaks. Normally the text is a load of old twaddle…like when they said this season was the first time Bayern had used two shades of grey in a kit…the 2010/11 Euro kit must have been a hallucination then…

  1019. Martyn Ping Says:

    Just seen the new Derby third strip. My one comment would be that it uses a shade so pale that I don’t think it provides a clear distinction from the home strip. I can see problems against Blackburn and Wednesday, potentially. White home, navy away, pale green third. The third will be OK, but not ideal. If it was a deeper shade of green, maybe. But this mint green (sorry – ‘marine’) third is, I would say, far too pale.

  1020. Martyn Ping Says:

    Oh, Denis, by the way :

    http://images.delcampe.com/img_large/auction/000/205/455/173_001.jpg

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/football-bundesliga-19821983-rhine-stadium-fortuna-duesseldorf-versus-picture-id550964719

    https://lvironpigs.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/1a1a1a12aa12aa16.jpg

    http://img.fifa.com/mm/photo/classic/wherearetheynow/01/31/26/44/1312644_full-lnd.jpg

    http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/FC+Schalke+04+v+Bayern+Munich+izCBFBz1qFgl.jpg

    http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/73861316-munich-germany-bayern-munichs-goalkeeper-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QZPFTjdOXl%2BIu7W6MItQIPbSrDK%2F1OP8rq4qXuy1D2S8AqOrYc3cWtdNjLA4EPM2Gg%3D%3D

    http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/1751318-oliver-kahn-of-bayern-munich-in-action-during-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QJOunc5BrsAnuXbpElnnrpOa9%2BPIyPQMct8xqjUl6yQtzWXc75RVSqzWYZPs46TMhA%3D%3D

    http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwhsaaTcck1r6mwuno1_1280.jpg

    http://i.skyrock.net/6962/34336962/pics/1729925632_small.jpg

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/goalkeeper-oliver-kahn-of-bayern-munich-celebrates-the-second-goal-of-picture-id53471028

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/oliver-kahn-of-fc-bayern-munich-passes-the-ball-during-the-german-picture-id2727625

    http://www.tz.de/bilder/2009/03/07/94843/2106130804-kahn_brda_475px-1cef.jpg

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/bd/d0/7e/bdd07e5902c55f2e3982d2d68eb2b526.jpg

    http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/79689809-lukas-podolski-and-his-team-mate-oliver-kahn-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=Z0zsWpN2ukUDXYqF4boPJSsVSRJsUMBUstJfIuBWQuIVC%2FaHM%2FeVzutvSn74i%2B2nzLskKZVMlQI8OmZVBDsQww%3D%3D

    Hope these help. That first one was definitely silver!

  1021. Ali Says:

    Re the new EFL font, I’m not so sure about the effectiveness of the new numbers. I mean, anything would be an improvement on the previous look, but I don’t think this is the answer. Now, the white numbers feature too much black, and vice versa, and the overall look is a bit…off.

    Also, that Everton third shirt literally has the worst sponsor colour ever. Especially ridiculous different colours for change kits in the past.

  1022. Martyn Ping Says:

    So here they all are :

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/08/2016-17-bundesliga-kits-overview.html

    I should mention that they forgot the Freiburg third that they’d actually covered earlier in the summer! Here it is :

    http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/07/freiburg-16-17-bundesliga-third-kit.html

    I can’t find reference to a Darmstadt third kit – though they’d need one against Hertha – or a RB Leipzig one. All the other kits are present and correct though. Incidentally, the excellent Ralph Honigstein on BT said that he thought the HSV home was the best Bundesliga kit; purple Bremen kit the worst (because, he argued, purple has absolutely nothing to do with Bremen or its history – he has a point – the usual third colour has been the ever reliable black or orange; the latter is a slight bit of artistic license because the city and state colours of Bremen are actually red).

  1023. Tony JB Says:

    So no visitors can wear red shirts at Watford because their GK wears red ! Who decided this rule ?

  1024. Martyn Ping Says:

    Was that the reason for Arsenal having to change? Thats bonkers, especially when it created a shorts clash, and the large areas of yellow on the shirt were potentially problematic too…I said all along that they should have done another colour on the third, rather than essentially being a reversal of the away, as I thought a ‘double clash’ scenario might occur. No-one believed me…should have been two shades of blue IMO.

  1025. Martyn Ping Says:

    Ok, so Monaco had their home shirt with a plain back in Europe last week; tonight, in domestic action, its back to white and red. Same kit apart from. Explanations?

  1026. Denis Hurley Says:

    Fairly straightforward explanation – UEFA insist on the number being on a solid colour; Ligue 1 don’t.

  1027. Martyn Ping Says:

    So, usual UEFA rubbish then? Don’t see the problem there, black would be perfectly legible on red and white.

  1028. Denis Hurley Says:

    I’d beg to differ. With the way the halves are, 5, 6 and 8, for example, could be awkward to work out with black on red.

  1029. Martyn Ping Says:

    Depends on the font, I reckon. The special one they had a gew years ago, I think under Puma, trimmed the black with gold and stood out fine – it was also more rounded. Font can make all the difference – for example, in the mid 90’s, adidas’ standard template was done in white over the Newcastle stripes, and because of how chunky it was it stood out fine. There was also some mad experimentation in Germany in the early 90’s, when to get round legibility issues, even the numbers were moved at an angle! Puma were the main culprits, Eintracht Frankfurt their main ‘victims’.

  1030. Jon Says:

    West Brom’s under 23 team wearing their black away kit with home shorts and socks in the EFL Trophy at Millwall last night. Millwall for this season are wearing a kit that would look just right on West Brom – navy and white stripes.

    Quite poor if you ask me, I dread to think what the Baggies would wear if they were to play a cup game at the likes of Newcastle or Notts County this season?

  1031. Jon Says:

    I remember that Eintracht kit with the slanted numbers, from the time when $ky first started showing Bundesliga football on TV here back in 1991…

    http://www.eintrachttrikots.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/charly-koerbel-fussball-camps-eintracht-frankfurt-legende-nachwuchs-talente-sonny-kittel-zwickau-cha-bruchhagen.jpg

    Quite surprised they were able to use that away kit given the amount of red on it. Anyhow, it can’t be as bad as their kit from 1993 which looked like it was designed by their sponsors TetraPak!

  1032. Denis Hurley Says:

    Jon – Spotted that with WBA too, but I’ll give an amnesty as they had the good grace to field in 1-11 while other PL academy sides wore stupid high squad numbers

  1033. Jon Says:

    I’m surprised they didn’t retain last season’s dark red effort (with the new sponsor), or dug out a red kit from the Adidas teamwear catalogue.

  1034. Martyn Ping Says:

    Jon,
    I think you’re right, that ’93 kit was partly or fully designed with / by the sponsor. It was probably a ‘Coventry – Talbot’ esque cunning plan. I could be wrong, but I don’t think the Bundesliga has the same restrictions on logo size that exist in other leagues. This was certainly the case from the late 70’s to the mid 90’s; they were all over the place! Gladbach (Puma again) even had the sponsor high on the shirt with the badge beneath it. Oh, just thought – the Bochum ‘rainbow kit’ was designed by the sponsor, too. I remember reading that.

  1035. Jon Says:

    Here’s another one – Sunderland wore white at Southampton at the weekend, which is a bit of an oddity considering they have a pink and purple third kit available. Now you go and watch them wear said pink/purple kit at Stoke later this season……..

  1036. Jon Says:

    The awkward moment when a team brings out a new kit for the Euro’s, only to discard it for crappy teamwear to chase the millions of dollars……… yep, well done Slovakia.

    Bet their fans are pleased they’ll have to shell out for another shirt.

  1037. Denis Hurley Says:

    Germany wore their away shirt and socks with change olive-green shorts against Norway last night – would have been preferable to see them in the strip they used against Italy at Euro 2016

  1038. Martyn Ping Says:

    Don’t like the alternate shorts, Denis. They should have worn the black ones from the home kit, I reckon. I see the latest rumours are that while the away strip is to be retained, the home for the Confed Cup next Summer is going to be ‘inspired’ by the 1990 kit. There seems to be some confusion over whether that means away (which would mean an ‘arrow’ shadow pattern) or home (zig-zag flag on the chest). I think the latter is most likely because the adidas Originals homage is being reduced now…prefacing an official unveiling later in the year?

  1039. Denis Hurley Says:

    Interesting stuff, Martyn – hadn’t heard that. It’s a little bit odd, isn’t it, as the 2014 World Cup shirt was a kind-of homage?

  1040. Martyn Ping Says:

    In the respect of a large chest design (that interestingly is now turning up as teamwear), then yes. When adidas introduced it in 1988 (one of the rare occasions of a kit in the modern era actually lasting for two tournaments), it was a trend setter, especially the way the zig zag seemed to cut into the three stripes. Then it all went horribly wrong in 1994 when the ‘psychedelic vomit’ shirt appeared. But that 88/92 shirt is a design classic.

    *I should mention at this point that it was mentioned on ‘you know where’…the boot obsessed site…so treat it with a pinch of salt.

    **If it was left to me it would be a replication of the 1954 shirt, complete with lace up collar. The adidas stripes, logo, and WC stars could be done in white to maintain historical integrity. I’d also include the original DFB logo without the additional ring (added in 2004). Can but dream, eh?

  1041. Jon Says:

    Netherlands wearing orange at Sweden the other night – a bit strange, especially with the awful contrasting blue socks. I’d have thought they’d wear their away kit.

  1042. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yellow v orange is very inconsistently dealt with – Brazil v Netherlands at 1994 World Cup had both in away kits, 1998 semi-final they were both in homes.

  1043. Jon Says:

    Netherlands wore white against Sweden (in yellow) at Euro 2004.

    These days with far better resolution television sets and severely myopic viewers, FIFA would have a hissy fit about light vs light.

  1044. Martyn Ping Says:

    White vs yellow has always been a funny one; things have changed from the 70’s, when almost every team had a yellow and blue, or all yellow, away kit. I think it’s fine as long as the shorts don’t clash; Spurs for one have made an asset of an all yellow away for that very reason.

  1045. Jon Says:

    From what I’ve read across various sources, the popularity of yellow away kits in the 70’s was down to the great Brazil team, with some clubs even going the whole hog and having (light) blue shorts and white socks (Newcastle being one such example).

    Tottenham changed their change kit to yellow in the late 60’s after the Football League ruled their usual navy change shirts could not be used because they clashed with the officials (not like they could ask the officials to change to red or another colour as they did elsewhere in the world is it???). However, their use of yellow change kits has been on/off for the last 35 years.

    Leeds have done likewise having a yellow change kit, which they’ve often “done an Arsenal” when playing at teams in white shorts.

  1046. Ali Says:

    Ipswich away to Reading on Friday night, wearing maroon shorts and socks with their rarely seen ‘Barcelona’ shirt. Interestingly, the trim on said shorts and socks was yellow to match the shirts – I recall this was white when the kit was launched…

    http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8802884.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Reading-v-Ipswich-Town-Sky-Bet-Championship-Madejski-Stadium.jpg

  1047. Martyn Ping Says:

    I read that too, Jon, but I’m a bit dubious – for a start, Brazil won their last WC for 24 years in 1970, so teams such as Arsenal, Southampton, Everton and Spurs probably changed for some other reason – up to the early 60’s, the most common thing for teams was to simply reverse their colours. There were of course, exceptions – Man City in black and red springs to mind – but I would say the use of yellow was to avoid all possible clashes, not an homage to Brazil. In any case, why did these teams avoid white socks? Teams in full Brazil colours (including Bayern in 1984, in an attempt to beat the ‘Kaiserslautern curse’) likely DID choose the colours as a tribute – I know Bayern picked them as they still carried a certain reputation, and at this point we’d lost so many matches at the (then) Betzenberg that we were willing to try anything!

  1048. John Devlin Says:

    As far as I’m lead to believe you are right Jon – the Brazilian flair inspired the widespread use of yellow in the 70s

  1049. Denis Hurley Says:

    Yellow was also popular as so few teams wore it as a first-choice!

    Semi-related to that, though – I was surprised to see Arsenal not doing an Arsenal last night, wearing their home kit away to PSG. While the navy kit is the European away (and also the away when they play Watford :/), I fully expected them to wear all-yellow.

    Last season, they also wore the home in the Nou Camp, though I assumed that this was because of the navy sleeves on the gold kit.

  1050. Jon Says:

    Spurs changed to yellow before 1970, though this was part to do with force than choice, as the Football League being the awkward nitpickers as they were decided that navy shirts would be banned as it clashed with the referees’ kit (rather than ask the ref’s to wear a different colour). The result – navy was exchanged for yellow, and hence became a staple change colour for Spurs for the next 30 years (with a few exceptions).

    Arsenal also fell foul of the navy rule, and just like their rivals adopted yellow before the colour became more popular post-Brazil 1970. Everton had worn amber for a change shirt but switched to yellow in the early 70’s, likewise Southampton.

    Indeed yellow – that’s the standard “bright” yellow we’d associate with Brazil, was only used in the Football League prior to 1970 by two teams: Norwich, and Torquay United, though both of those sides would have changed when facing teams wearing amber, gold or orange.

  1051. Martyn Ping Says:

    Denis – not that I’m in the habit of agreeing with bizarre changes or non changes, I have to say that Arsenal were justified in that action because the red on the PSG shirt is so washed out this year that it’s basically all navy – hence the Gunners wearing their home kit.

    I must say I loved that Atletico kit against PSV with yellow shorts – unusual, but it worked IMO.

    Still a bit dubious about this yellow Brazil kit thing; Could be an urban legend similar to the ‘reason that Germany picked green as an away colour’…For the record, the DFB (German FA) colours prior to WW2 were red, black and white. Due to the negative connotations involved after the war the DFB decided to pick the most neutral colour they could think of, and decided on green. This was then used as the away colours for the same reason. So it had nothing to do with playing Ireland in the first post war international, as the legend states (that was in fact Switzerland). Jurgen Klinsmann persuaded the DFB to switch to red in 2005 because he felt that it was the most successful and therefore most intimidating colour (he wanted it to be the home colours but the DFB vetoed the idea).

  1052. Jon Says:

    Feyenoord do the “number clarity” thing the proper way, just what is wrong with this?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Csas2hWWgAASG4e.jpg

    UEFA, FIFA and kit manufacturers take note – it’s a tried and tested method that was widespread until some doer-no-gooder decided sometime around 2004 that “oh, it should be a plain back”.

  1053. Denis Hurley Says:

    @Martyn – I’ve no problem at all with Arsenal wearing their proper colours, just surprised!

    That ‘Ireland were the first to play Germany and the away is green as a tribute’ legend really irritates me.

  1054. Jon Says:

    Inter Milan wearing their third kit at home in the Europa League, for some odd reason. And it’s awful too.

  1055. Martyn Ping Says:

    Yeah, really irritates me too, Denis. Some years back I got a superb book called ‘Tor’, all about the history of German football (good and bad), and it was in there that Switzerland played Germany as their first post war international because they were neutral and no-one else would (they weren’t officially re-admitted to FIFA until 1950)…then I saw this ridiculous urban legend that completely flew in the face of known facts. German football is routinely the victim of ‘if we don’t know the facts, make it up’…I have in the past stopped reading certain football magazines for this very reason. If it wasn’t a well known fact why the DFB picked green then I could understand it, but it is! The colour is still on their official crest even 70 years on.

  1056. Martyn Ping Says:

    Jon,
    Just seen that – I agree totally. The ‘square to hold the number’ thing had been used for decades, and was always the best solution for stripes, too. In this instance, I always preferred it to a contrasting colour (such as Newcastle using red in the 80’s), as clarity is assured. But, ‘sigh’ I think solid backs might dominate for a while yet.

  1057. Martyn Ping Says:

    New PSG third kit : Bit of class, well done Nike

    New Barca/City/Galatasaray/ Inter third kits : Really, really disgusting. Shame on you, Nike.

    Can we please drop this ‘global template’ idea now, please? These shirts ain’t cheap. The PSG one mentioned above proves that when the mood takes them Nike can produce something a bit classy. Coming up with another migraine inducing third and forcing it on four clubs with only the colour changing…these are MAIN contracts, don’t forget…is just plain LAZY.

    Rant over.

  1058. Andrew Rockall - Statto74 Says:

    Anyone know why Arseanal have reverted to red socks with white turnovers for the first time since the last adidas kit in 1994?

  1059. Davidr1986 Says:

    I for one am glad Arsenal have went back to red socks with white turn overs, looks much better than the white socks!

    Re the Ipswich third kit short and sock changes are a massive improvement, the white trim on the versions used last season looked awful so well done to Adidas for rectifying that!

    On a side note did anyone else spend far too much money in the Classic Football Shirts 10 year anniversary sale?!

    I might as well just direct debit part of my wages to them, spending far too much money there!

  1060. Jon Says:

    On the subject of Barça, anyone noticed they wore their home kit at Leganés today? Not a particularly clever one considering the back of Leganés’ kit is practically all blue – I’d have thought Barça would have worn that dark purple kit with the awful shocking pink socks, or worse still wore that other awful new green third kit.

  1061. Ali Says:

    Middlesbrough have clearly left their alternative home shorts behind in the Championship. God I hate shorts clashes….

  1062. Denis Hurley Says:

    Bad shorts and socks clash at White Hart Lane today IMO

  1063. Jon Says:

    I’m sure Sunderland got their inspiration for that pink and purple kit from a jumper that James May once wore on Top Gear.

    Looks like something straight from the miadidas customising site too.

  1064. Martyn Ping Says:

    Denis,
    Yeah, it wasn’t ideal, was it? Do Sunderland have a pair of white away shorts in their lineup? Because that’s probably the reason – I believe only ‘top tier’ adidas contracts have change shorts/socks.

    Swansea away at Southampton wasn’t perfect, either. I think royal blue or navy against black has potential to clash, regardless of the shirt colour.

    But…having seen kits across all the big leagues (and some of the smaller ones, too), I have to say that Joma Swansea home is a work of art. Love it! I can find absolutely nothing to criticise about it.

    Re Feyenoord number blocks – I saw highlights of a Serie A game between Milan and Sampdoria, and the (again) Joma kit worn by Samp had the familiar red, black and white chest band going all the way round the back, with the (red) number laid on top, trimmed rather classily in white. SHOCK! OUTRAGE! Well, you can tell UEFA it worked fine and legibility wasn’t a problem…

    Leaks of next seasons Barca home today and over the weekend – apparently they’re doing the ‘varying stripe’ width thing again. Has there been a supplier with a more schizophrenic approach to kits like, ever? Because Barca have had halves, stripes, pinstripes, faded stripes, thick stripes, thin stripes, yellow trim, navy trim, white trim, red shorts, blue shorts, navy shorts…Come on, Nike, give it a rest! I know, as a Bayern fan, experimentation is expected, but apart from our odd excursions into stripes or hoops, the kit has been a red base since 2003. White shorts have only popped up twice in all that time. Barca / Nike on the other hand seem determined to start over every season!

  1065. Martyn Ping Says:

    And in an interesting twist, Leverkusen have just unveiled a FOURTH kit. Why? I hear you ask. The home is all black, away is all red, and third is all white. It is a tribute to the founder of the Bayer Pharmaceutical group that give the club its name…In a rather pleasing to the eye green and blue halved design with white trim (the companies commercial colours). My question would be : Why issue this now, when three perfectly serviceable kits have already been unveiled? Why not issue it INSTEAD of the white one? Its already been used in the Bundesliga. I think the whole approach is bonkers.

  1066. Martyn Ping Says:

    Weird, isn’t it, how TV cameras change certain colours? The gold on the Sunderland kits looks an insipid shade of brown; the gold Spurs third actually looks orange. Both of these looked gold when unveiled. I know gold is a problem colour; when Bayern had it on the home kits in 11-13 in the flesh it looked beige, while on TV, gold.

    On that subject, why did Spurs wear their third ar Boro? And why did Hull wear black at Anfield? In the former case I suppose you could say it’s the lower shirt white sash, but with a navy shoulder panel and shorts, surely no clash would occur? The latter case seems strange to me. I fail to see how amber and black with white trim could possibly clash with all red with yellow trim…

  1067. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    The Hull ‘clash’ was completely shown up to be non existent by their goalkeeper wearing all orange.

    Apart from clubs trying to showcase all their strips, could the white on Boro’s shirt be a reason?

  1068. Jon Says:

    Watford wearing their away kit at Burnley tonight for no reason whatsoever. And to add insult to injury, it’s caused a shorts clash.

    Madness

  1069. Scott Grimwood Says:

    plus Watford’s keeper kit surely is clashing as well.

  1070. Denis Hurley Says:

    Sadly, Watford appear to have settled into a routine of treating the ‘away kit’ literally.

  1071. Jon Says:

    Arsenal would never do such a thing would they Denis? ;)

  1072. Chris Varney Says:

    Sheffield United so far in 10 league plus 2 cup games have worn their home shirt in everyone. In a few of the away games white shorts have been worn instead of the black.

  1073. Denis Hurley Says:

    Going going!

    @Jon – I despair at a lot non-footballing choices made by Arsenal. Manchester United deal best with clashes and non-clashes.

  1074. Pat Brazzier Says:

    In the premier league most teams have 3 kits – a home kit and two alternative kits. When away from home now it is the norm for premier league teams to wear any of their alternative kits even when there is not a clash of original kits. In the premier league and FA Cup competitions clubs do not have to change the colour of their shorts even if there is a clash. This is according to IFAB rule 4 (according to David Elleray).

    However all clubs playing in the English pyramid below the premier league have to change their shirts, shorts and socks if there is a clash. This is according to a standard set of rules sent to the leagues and clubs by the FA!

    I am confident that from next season that there will not be any more clashes of shorts.

  1075. Denis Hurley Says:

    Inside info, Pat?!

  1076. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Arseanal will wear yellow at home tonight as Basel don’t have a third kit. Red on the home shirt and a white away kit causes a potential sleeve clash!

  1077. Denis Hurley Says:

    Really?!

  1078. Denis Hurley Says:

    Just seen it. A bit stupid that a situation like that arises – given that Basel’s home is red and blue, they should have a third

  1079. Denis Hurley Says:

    Other occasions Arsenal changed at home https://museumofjerseys.com/2016/09/28/arsenal-in-their-away-kit-at-home-its-not-uncommon/

  1080. Martyn Ping Says:

    I think there is such a large amount of black on the Basel strip it actually wouldn’t have clashed at all. After all, didn’t a team play Chelsea last season or the one before in all yellow with a navy half on the shirt? Overall effect : no clash.

    My team, Bayern, last night played Atletico in their black and grey away strip, bizarrely worn with the third kits socks. Bizarre because the shorts were black and were deemed to be far enough away from Atletico’s royal blue; why not the socks?

  1081. Andy Rockall - Statto_74 Says:

    Martin Chelsea’s royal blue wasn’t a clash with the navy halves as they are vastly different shades. The red of Basel is the same shade of red on the Arseanal shirt. If a concession was to be made, surely it would be to allow Basel to wear white.

    Tottenham have played them 183 times and since 1933 both teams home shirts have had white sleeves, with the exception of 3 seasons (AFC wore all red shirts for 2 seasons in the Sixties and in 2005/06 neither side had white sleeves), yet there have only been two games where the away team changed.

  1082. Denis Hurley Says:

    Three games, Andy, though one was a testimonial.

    Martyn, you might like this https://museumofjerseys.com/2016/09/29/the-1990s-an-increasingly-blue-decade-for-bayern-munich-and-adidas/

  1083. Martyn Ping Says:

    Andy,
    My point was it’s similar shades; navy and royal in normal circumstances would be considered a clash – I believe it was debated on these very pages. I think that the amount of black on the Basel strips overrides the red; it has a solid black back as well.
    The only other thing that would have sensibly worked is for Basel to have worn white shirt and socks with the home black shorts. That would have worked.

  1084. Martyn Ping Says:

    Denis,
    Interesting article, thanks. Couple of additions – the 95-97 home kit was based on an earlier kit from the 70’s that, in that case, had no white on it apart from the badge – the shorts and socks were blue. The club badge wasn’t seen on the kits (apart from the ’87 EC final) from ’74 until ’88ish. The inspiration for the blue was the Bavarian flag, as stated. Bayern’s red, in fact, has no state / city connections – it came from a short lived merger with the MSC (Munchner Sport Club) in 1905. Bayern were white / black / white prior to that. Apparently MSC insisted on a change to red shorts when the two merged. It only lasted a couple of years before they split again; Bayern kept the strip though, paired more often than not with navy socks, until all red was adopted for the first time in 1965. So blue has never been too far away from the strip. As discussed though, that 99/01 kit was a stunner. It’s not always easy to keep the integrity of all red and bring a second, dominant colour into the strip, along with a third, trim colour. That strip did it perfectly. Can’t fault it – the fact it was worn in two years that saw the club win two league titles and the EC helped! Even though the all red ‘retro’ kit was worn in the ’01 final, the red and blue was seen earlier in the competition against Real Madrid. Finally, the 97/99 all navy has NEVER been explained – it wasn’t traditional, it wasn’t retro, AND it upset 1860 (meaning the use of the ‘stadtderby’ strip). Never understood that one.

  1085. Jon Says:

    Great article on Bayern’s 90’s kits.

    I never did understand the all navy kit used from 1997 to 1999. I remember back then being able to watch German football on analogue satellite TV and was confused as to why they were wearing that kit at home until it dawned on me that it was actually the new home kit.

    A club swapping a traditional colour for something totally different……. they’d never do that in my country. Oh hang on I forgot. ;)

  1086. Martyn Ping Says:

    To be honest, Bayern have always had a somewhat schizophrenic approach to kits, especially since adidas came in in ’65. The only constant is that red will feature somewhere. That blue kit seemed a step too far, especially when the club nickname is ‘Die Roten’ (The Reds)!It did allow one of the best away kits we have ever worn though – the ‘white fading to red’ with horizontal navy pinstripes. Bit of class, that one.

  1087. Martyn Ping Says:

    * Should have said ‘changing’, not fading.

  1088. Martyn Ping Says:

    Leverkusen forced to wear their all red away kit at home yesterday to Dortmund, owing to the large amount of black on the BVB home kit, and the fact that the away kit is black/grey. So far, so sensible. The only problem is that Dortmund have an ‘official’ all white third, that to my knowledge they’ve never worn (carried over from last season). To me, yesterday would’ve been the perfect opportunity.

  1089. Scott Grimwood Says:

    Bizarre kit clash this weekend Colchester away at Yeovil wearing lime green against Yeovil’s green and white hoop’s despite having a black away kit that would have been better.

  1090. James Says:

    I noticed this weekend that Middlesbrough resurrected their away kit from last season to avoid a clash with Crystal Palace despite it not being registered at the start of the season. I seem to remember reading an article on this site saying this wasn’t allowed, so has their been a recent rule change?

    On a slightly related note, I’ve noticed that the Nottingham Forest Under 23’s have been wearing last years away kit on at least two occasions this season, so I’m assuming the rules are different for them.

  1091. Denis Hurley Says:

    I don’t recall that article James, have you a link? I think allowance is made regarding ‘emergency’ third kits

  1092. Jon Says:

    I remember Hull City had to do likewise and use the previous season’s white away kit for an FA Cup replay at Newcastle in 2009, after their dark grey away kit caused problems in the previous league fixture between the two.

    I would guess the authorities make exceptions for alleviating kit clashes if clubs or officials identify an issue in advance.

  1093. James Says:

    Found it- http://www.truecoloursfootballkits.com/truecolours/premier-league-rules-on-kits

    “6. A home and away kit must be presented to the Premier League at least 4 weeks before the season starts, hence why unexpected kit clashes fail to revive previous seasons kits.”

    Admittingly this is from the 2008-09 handbook, so it probably has been changed by now

  1094. Denis Hurley Says:

    James – those numbered pieces at the start were the observations of Phil, who sent that to John, as opposed to official regulations.

    2008-09 itself had that Hill situation Jon mentioned.

  1095. Phil Says:

    Its not worst ever but in the modern game you would think the following could be avoided? Further, if this is not a clash then surely Newcastle only need to change at West Brom/Grimsby etc but not at Brighton or Huddersfield?

    http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gallery/whitley-bay-0-0-newcastle-13385433

    The problem here is Newcastle’s away kits. The away is sky blue with navy shorts. The 3rd is all black. The back of the Whitley Bay shirts was blue so the 3rd kit would make all blue vs all black from behind. Maybe the home kit was the best option?

  1096. Phil Says:

    In addition to the above, maybe its just a ‘paper clash?’ as the overall look isnt too bad. Its only when you look at the kits face on that a ‘clash’ appears.

  1097. Tony Spike Says:

    Was watching this the other day, …have to say it was pretty confusing on the hard camera (broadcast camera) view so i thought i would share it

    http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xr/984597.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=3&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FDDFEC8B0D8F493E4806E7E653101C13B33D7A5686AE326145E30A760B0D811297

  1098. Tony Spike Says:

    Anyone got any info on West Broms third kit?

    EPL handbook has the white home shorts and socks registered to it, and HFK has blue socks for it

    Do Brom even have an alt set in blue this year? And if nit where is HFK getting its info from because their aee no pictures

  1099. tony JB Says:

    Would say HFK used the kit they wore at Brighton at start of season when they wore navy socks which they also wore at Tottenham on saturday as both BHA & THFC wear white home socks so the EPL handbook is most likely correct ..

  1100. Tony Spike Says:

    Cool ….but what about blue shorts, it looks like those socks were an emergency set

    You see i just picked up a mod for pro evo that has the kit as all green for some odd reason

  1101. Tony Spike Says:

    And i am trying to correct it and add any alts i can find

  1102. Tony Says:

    Think you’re limited to 1 colour choice on the Pro Evo editing .. so might be best to stick to the kit they did wear at spurs & brighton for the game ?

  1103. Tony Spike Says:

    no, …..you can activate up to 4 kits per team,and most of the time i put an alt version of one of the kits as the 4th (unless no third is available and then i make a second alt)

    for example my 4th kit for Man Utd is the home with black shorts,

    so for Brom i have gone for the 3 kits plus the extra 3rd with the blue socks (since the white ones are in the handbook), but if theirs an alt home or away i see those as a priority

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