OK, challenge for everyone : was the white Man Utd away kit of the early 80’s, produced by adidas, the only kit to feature side stripes? Bayern, as far as I’m aware, despite their long association with adidas, never had a side striped kit before this season. Reading TC Volume 1 back in ’05 it was the first time I’d even seen it – I don’t even recall seeing it on an International strip either.
Predictable moi? No, actually, as far as I know (and I’ve seen some obscure ones) there has NEVER been a Bayern kit with side stripes before this season. That’s why I was asking the question, because I’ve never seen it other than on the early 80’s Utd one. You WOULD think that adidas would’ve done it on a Bayern kit at the same time, but no – both kits had non contrasting collars with white / red stripes on the shoulders and sleeves.
Interesting leaks re Arsenal shirts in the past week or so; home will apparently be a darker red (not as dark as ‘last Highbury’ kit but darker than the usual); away pale blue with mid blue trim; third black and grey. In the latter case it would be the first black kit ever worn by the Gunners. Interesting, eh?
I thought that one was navy from memory; Upon investigation it was officially anthracite so we’re both wrong! I think the jazzy stripes at the bottom possibly made me think it was blue; I will modify my original statement and say it’s the first time they’ve had an almost monochromatic strip, that is to say, black/grey with very little of another colour – no word on the trim but I would imagine white.
Sounds hideous. In more pleasing news, apparently the Bayern away next season will be navy with a red chest band as an homage to the 97/99 home strip. Navy is my favourite Bayern away/third colour, and with a bit more subtlety than the original that one could be a stunner. Home is going to be all red with white pinstripes too, which if done right could be a cracker.
My thoughts exactly! Totally wrong as a home, right as an away. If we ever did switch home colours again it should be to white, being as that was our first choice up to the late 60’s. Never understood the choice of navy.
Nice kit, yes, but not as a home. Leaving 90 odd years of tradition behind was a bit strange, and annoyed 1860 to the point where we had to get a one off kit in all red just for the derby game! The grey CL kit was a beut (best grey kit ever???), but unfortunately tainted by ‘that’ game in ’99…
you know …i hadn’t even considered that till just now
i mean at the time i had never heard of TSV 1860, so to me it was just a kit,
but the fact that blue is the colour of Bayern’s main local rivals has been lost on me all these years when it comes to considering that kit a classic …..i hadn’t even taken it into account
their is a derby game out their where the teams play in each others colours
i do remember that i thought it was a little strange for Bayern to not be in stripes
the last time i had seen Bayern play was in the stripes crystal palace had used in 1997,
but at that time the concept of teams changing designs to something else was new to me ….i thought teams that had played in stripes stayed that way through the years
but i never thought any thing of it as a rivals colour lol
but then again saying that i actually though the grey kit was Bayern’s home kit for a while, it was only a few years later i realized it was a special euro kit like the one Manchester United wore that year (hell that year was my first introduction to special kits full stop)
i dont consider that fact Bayern came second in that kit to “taint” it in any way
but then again i was a Manchester United fan at the time
i couldn’t begin to imagine how losing a final like that can effect your memory of it
Still painful after nearly 18 years I’m afraid!
In answer to your observations, although stripes do pop up from time to time (and the 95/97 kit was shared with Palace as you said), Bayern have mainly been solid red since 75, except from 95-99 and in 14/15. From 65 to 75 adidas, who had just come in as suppliers, had a run of experimentation; all red, white/red/white, all red again, red and white stripes, red and blue stripes, white with red and blue tramline, all red with white sleeves, all red with white pinstripes, and finally all red. Interestingly, most of those strips were brought back in some way from 95 onwards. The navy home kit jarred not just because it was a colour associated with 1860, but also because it was the first time that design had appeared in 99 years. The EC strip is a classic, but I can’t look at it without remembering 99!
Finally, blue is a Bavarian colour, used to signify high Bavaria (where Munich is), and the flag of Bavaria is in Bayern’s badge. Bayern is German for Bavaria. Complicated, eh?
*The colours of the city of Munich itself are yellow and black, which although I like them I can’t see Bayern adopting them in a strip anytime soon due to their association with Dortmund!
In case anyone was wondering the red came from a short lived merger with the MSC, a multi sport association, in 1905. The merger allowed Bayern to keep their name but MSC insisted on the club adopting red shorts instead of the black worn at the time as they were the club colours. The merger only lasted a few years but the colour stayed. There is no reason I can find beyond a liking for the colour why it was picked by MSC in the first place – red in the Bavarian coat of arms signifies Franconia, the northern part of Bavaria where Nurnberg and Furth are located. Researching German club colours is more troublesome than in England because some of the reasons behind selection are more abstract! If I have the time in the future I’d like to submit an article for TC being as it’s an interest of mine, should other contributors be interested.
Yeah, have to say if it’s true I don’t personally like it; bit bland. Whereas pinstripes on the home will work owing to the retro element, these fading stripes just seem a bit nondescript, especially when some of the competition designs were so stunning. I was hoping for the tramline kit!
Here is my prediction : traditional but pedestrian home and away, utilising whatever template Nike are peddling at the time; hideous third in a non traditional colour scheme, using a ‘global template’.
I read that post a few months back Denis quite a nice read mate ….interesting too
As for you Martyn
I already knew about the bavarian flag being blue and white, one of my other hobbies is heraldry vexiology (thats flags to you and me) and wargaming and these two pastimes gel quite a lot as you should imagine
But it also means i do find the origin of club emblems and colours interesting,
I mean in the most part they are (in a somewhat lesser fashion obviously) similar to the practice of giving your armys a coloured uniform or a banner like they used to in the 1800s (red coats for britain, white for prussia, blue for france ect,)
Or emblazoning your shield and surcoat (that fabric thing worn over armour) with your colours and coat of arms so people know who is who on a battlefield
So as you can imagine ….this stuff is appealing to me
For example i know why Germany play in white because my wargaming research has tought me that they are the colours of prussia and that also the old german flag (and im talking the wiemar flag not the nazi one) was red white and black like a manchester united kit
Hell i would be happy to colaberate with you if you need me to …i dont know much but i know some things lol
Btw …..MSC ..would they be similar to Dymamo sports club by any chance?
Their are a lot of teams in europe that were formed in the same way …..most teams called Dynamio belong to this category
MSC stood for Munchner Sports Club; a lot of German football teams were formed as part of multi sport organisations, or in Bayern’s case joined them later. Over in the East, as you said, many of these clubs were called Dynamo, though that was also used for clubs with close ties to the Stasi (East German secret police).
Club colours have always fascinated me, especially German ones in the nearly 17 years I’ve followed the league. Often as in the case of Bayern, the club crest has a different lineage from the main colours, and that is where fascinating ambiguities occur; for example, Schalke play in royal blue (and always have), yet the colours of the city Gelsenkirchen (where the district of Schalke is located) are green and black. I can only assume that royal blue is a district, not city colours. Look at Schalke’s club crest and the ‘G’ that surrounds the S04 denotes Gelsenkirchen.
You are right about Germany’s national colours; the old Prussian flag was white, black and red, with the Imperial symbol of the black eagle (sometimes two headed, but more often just one) actually dating back to the seventeenth century. That is why it still sits on the badge and is still the symbol of Federal Germany. Heraldry occasionally crops up with club sides in Germany : as well as Bayern’s Bavarian diamonds, Eintracht Frankfurt and Preussen Munster both have eagles (Preussen is German for Prussia); 1.FC Saarbrucken have a coat of arms too.
Yellow has occasionally been used as a backdrop to the black eagle, going back to the fifteenth century, though it would have been a heraldic coat of arms or shield rather than a flag, so you are correct in that regard.
Investigation on Wikipedia about Schalke only turns up vagueness; however the coat of arms of the city of Gelsenkirchen has a section with a red lion against a background of blue and white horizontal stripes, so that could well be it if it denotes that particular part of the city. As I said, the flag is green white and black but the arms has different colours on it.
Generally speaking, German clubs are usually founded by either a group of players; as part of a wider sporting group; a merger between existing clubs; or with co-operation of a parent company (Volkswagen for Wolfsburg and Bayer Pharmaceuticals for Leverkusen). Instances of a rich patron founding a club are extremely rare – Hoffenheim rose through the leagues via a rich fan (and lifelong supporter), whereas Energy Drink FC (as I like to call them) took over the license of an existing club, so are completely artificial. In this context only the latter have introduced a new colour scheme in deference to their owner. Most German club colours are regional or commercial in origin. I could go on and on as I have been absorbing trivia for so long now!
yeah but Leipzig (Energy Drink FC …just LOL) must have had an history before Red Bull took over ……New York used to be the Metrostars for example
actually i find Red Bull to be particularly interesting
now i usually class re branding like this as a brand new team much in the same was as MK Dons are a new team and AFC Wimbledon are the old teams continuation
but i think its interesting because Red Bull are technically doing the same thing Dynamo did …..they are forming a multi sport club
aside from their football teams (Saltzburg, Leipzig, New York etc) they also own both the former English Jaguar F1 Team (re-branded Red Bull Racing) and the Italian Scuderia Minardi F1 (renamed Scuderia Torro Rosso …Literally Team Red Bull in Italian)
they currently own a few other teams from other sports too (that i cannot name …but i think they are in Cycling)
in 100 years time who is to say their teams wont be looked on like Dynamo are
RB Leipzig purchased the license of fifth division team SSV Markranstadt, taking over the team and rebranding them in line with teams in the USA and Austria. Markranstadt were founded in the post WWII years and played in the (East German) DDR league. They have usually operated in the lower leagues so have no great history to speak of, and are in fact still around as a club ‘affiliated’ with RBL; Being as the parent company own the license I believe problems would only be caused if they ever made it beyond regional football to the BL.3.
The problem a lot of fans have with RB Leipzig is that they have effectively come along with no individual identity – cloned, if you like, as part of the companies ‘global portfolio’. Imagine the uproar if a team in England, say for example your own Sheffield Wednesday, were suddenly rebranded as RB Sheffield and forced to play in white and red.
Dresden initially played in a deep red colour when they joined the SG (Sports Gemeinschaft, or Sporting Association) Dresden; they did however change to yellow and black in the 60’s, which are the colours of the city of Dresden. Therefore they can point to half a century of history representing a city;as such they are extremely popular with a strong fanbase. There was some discussion following the collapse of the DDR about dropping the ‘Dynamo’ from the clubs name and reverting to SG Dresden, but the club decided against this as much of their famous history was under the name of Dynamo.
Incidentally, RB Leipzig are not related to VfB Leipzig, former (early) German champions, also known as 1.FC Lokomotive Leipzig in the DDR days.
Don’t get me wrong, they are well supported and their own fans take pride in the ‘nobody likes us, we don’t care’ mentality; it’s just that fans of the other clubs, especially the long established ones, resent the artificiality of their formation, so even many years down the line, they’ll be looked on as poor relations – I think a few titles would just make it worse! I don’t mind clubs coming through the leagues – Hoffenheim did it – but in their case they kept their name, colours, and only moved their stadium a few miles up the road because Hoffenheim itself is so tiny. But their president is a lifelong fan. RB on the other hand just ‘rebranding’ a club leaves a bit of a sour taste.
sour taste or not their will eventually come a time when no one will care
MK Dons are pretty much now part of the fixtures and fittings, when we play them i dont care they were manufactured by stripping a team with history of any worth because at the end of the day the old clubs fans did something about it
im pretty sure their was uproar when Liverpool were technically “manufactured” 100 or so years ago
sure their was less history back then but my point is that eventually it will get to the point where no one will care
sure ..i dont agree with the practice that red bull have done ..neither do the Football Association, it ruins the games tradiditions (and we are not americans after all)
hell i dont agree with club owners messing with tradition full stop (i hate what has happened at hull)
but their comes a point where one must accept that it is their perogative to do what they want with a club they purchace
Yeah, fair enough. It just feels wrong as it is commercially motivated. I think the antipathy will fade over time; after all, Wolfsburg and Leverkusen are also occasionally sneered at because the German FA excused them both from the 50+1 rule, but even that has faded. But we will see.